Mark Warner Holidays and Ocean Club Resorts had a duty of care towards their guests.

[pegasus]

Which part of  "she was only home at night" don't you understand DCI?  Mrs Fenn was out all day and evening with her friend Edna Glyn, a friend whom some try to say doesn't even exist but we all know why this particular myth has been spawned don't we?

The Wednesday night was the night of the extended boozing session across at the tapas bar too if I recall correctly, a session which extended beyond midnight. And also the night when Kate chose to sleep in the children's room and not with Gerry.

Wasn't it the next morning when little Madeleine complained about being left alone and her and Sean crying?  No wonder Mrs Fenn didn't hear that episode because she was AWAY FROM HOME!

PF phoned EG after 11pm on the night she heard the extended crying. The actual portuguese verb in the written statement is "ligou a" which in this context and especially at that late hour clearly means "called" in the sense "telephoned".
No visit to EG is mentioned, not on the 2nd, nor on any other day.
PF was out during the day on the 2nd, but it seems obvious IMO that at that age she would have arrived home before 10.15pm.

[Brietta]

PF phoned EG after 11pm on the night she heard the extended crying. The actual portuguese verb in the written statement is "ligou a" which in this context and especially at that late hour clearly means "called" in the sense "telephoned".
No visit to EG is mentioned, not on the 2nd, nor on any other day.
PF was out during the day on the 2nd, but it seems obvious IMO that at that age she would have arrived home before 10.15pm.

Mrs Fenn's statement is dated 20th of August 2007: there is no statement from the friend she phoned.

People can be mistaken when trying to remember the precise date of momentous events:  for example Mrs Fenn's neice Carol Tranmer made a rogatory statement on 15th of May 2008 in which she realised that she had made mistakes in the dates in her original statement to Leics  police on 8th May 2007 regarding events which had happened while visiting her aunt.

[slartibartfast]

perhaps its not as simple as posters think....in 50 years of butlins style baby listening..not one serious incident reported...

in 50 years how many children have been seriously assaulted and even died in registered nurseries

Just came across the fact that Butlins stopped Baby Listening services in 1991 due to the children's act of 1989.

[Alice Purjorick]

Just came across the fact that Butlins stopped Baby Listening services in 1991 due to the children's act of 1989.

It would seem some posters must live in areas which remain with village scribes, village readers and cleft stick runners ....if you see what I mean 

[Mr Gray]

Just came across the fact that Butlins stopped Baby Listening services in 1991 due to the children's act of 1989.

then you will have a quote from butlins mentioning the childrens act....you wont of course because you are talking BS

[slartibartfast]

then you will have a quote from butlins mentioning the childrens act....you wont of course because you are talking BS

http://www.butlins-memories.com/forums/showthread.php?3002-Do-Babies-Still-Cry

[Mr Gray]

http://www.butlins-memories.com/forums/showthread.php?3002-Do-Babies-Still-Cry

so wheres the quote from butlins

[slartibartfast]

so wheres the quote from butlins

Predictable...

[Mr Gray]

Predictable...

predictable that your statement was wrong...you are quoting the opinion of a blogger as fact...

NO No theres no child listening service like there used to be. In fact if you look at the terms and conditions it clearly states no children under 5 should be left alone, and that that child facilities arent meant as child minding services. They havent done a baby listening service since 1991 when it was out lawed by the then governement as part of a new childrens act.

so according to this its ok for over 5s

[slartibartfast]

predictable that your statement was wrong...you are quoting the opinion of a blogger as fact...

NO No theres no child listening service like there used to be. In fact if you look at the terms and conditions it clearly states no children under 5 should be left alone, and that that child facilities arent meant as child minding services. They havent done a baby listening service since 1991 when it was out lawed by the then governement as part of a new childrens act.

so according to this its ok for over 5s

It is a site for Butlins fans, they all appear to agree that it stopped in the early 90s and that the stopping was related to the aforementioned Children's Act. So unless you are suggesting they are making it up?

[Mr Gray]

It is a site for Butlins fans, they all appear to agree that it stopped in the early 90s and that the stopping was related to the aforementioned Children's Act. So unless you are suggesting they are making it up?

listening service stopped but according to this postr butlins condones the leaving alone of the over 5s....

try and be more accurate...the blog post...thats all it is.....stated that the act outlawed the baby listening service..that part I don't believe

[Mr Gray]

They stopped it because leaving a child half a mile away alone in a chalet was deemed unsafe...if the chalets were all 50 yds away they would probably still be doing it

[slartibartfast]

listening service stopped but according to this postr butlins condones the leaving alone of the over 5s....

try and be more accurate...the blog post...thats all it is.....stated that the act outlawed the baby listening service..that part I don't believe

http://butlins.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/810/kw/Listening%20service

I am fairly that Butlins didn't want to meet the legal requirements of the act (see section X).

[TitoMuzzy]

They stopped it because leaving a child half a mile away alone in a chalet was deemed unsafe...if the chalets were all 50 yds away they would probably still be doing it

50 yards away from where precisely ? Are you trying to subconsciously supplant the notion that apartment 5a was 50 yards away from the tapas restaurant ?

[sadie]

50 yards away from where precisely ? Are you trying to subconsciously supplant the notion that apartment 5a was 50 yards away from the tapas restaurant ?

Yes it was, crow flies. 

Well about 50 metres, which is a midgen further.

I think that most people on this forum now accept that.

Crow flies is the important measurement for hearing sounds and visual things




If you dont believe it, try using Google Earth to check the distance.

IIRC, walking was about 78 metres to the patio doors from where the Tapas group sat in the restaurant.


NOT 150 or 230 metres as was falsely put about early on.  That was Propaganda of the worst type :rolls eyes: and created many Mccann damaging myths.