Amaral and MI5

[pegasus]

... Or is it someone who heard "intelligence service" and got mixed up? Who then repeated it to Amaral?

Probably correct. Or maybe the UK expert about to board a plane to UK might have actually told the PJ officer "MI5" but really meant "security services" or SOCA or something like that. Even Brit police sometimes use terms incorrectly (remember the "Spanish police"). Anyway I imagine the roles of MI5 and 6 would overlap and not be strictly delineated by the national border.

[pegasus]

... resources ... stretched to the maximum ...

Shame they didn't consider outsourcing.

[Gadfly]

MI5 were not involved in this case.

Bit of a waste of time even debating this point.

The more interesting question to ask is why did a former PJ who once had status and respect say this?

My guess...

The McCann case humiliated him.  His own did him in.  The prosecutors thought he was laughable.  More credible, talented colleagues in the PJ knew he was embarrassing the organisation.  He was essentially shown up to be what he is - a small town cop who doesn't have the ability to run and coordinate a case of this magnitude.

Once he lost his status, he traded in his former life for speculation, fantasy, money making.  He's trapped in an echo chamber of people telling him he is still distinguished and right.  He's so right about the McCann case they tell him.  Your documentary exposed the truth... Sad, because he craves the validation of the PJ who don't give him that... They know he's a joke,  This rejection spurs him on to keep acting in such a strange manner.  He knows the PJ can't comment and as such, the media will run with his stories because there is no other news about the investigation.

Sad really as i bet he did some good work in his day.

[stephen25000]

MI5 were not involved in this case.

Bit of a waste of time even debating this point.

The more interesting question to ask is why did a former PJ who once had status and respect say this?

My guess...

The McCann case humiliated him.  His own did him in.  The prosecutors thought he was laughable.  More credible, talented colleagues in the PJ knew he was embarrassing the organisation.  He was essentially shown up to be what he is - a small town cop who doesn't have the ability to run and coordinate a case of this magnitude.

Once he lost his status, he traded in his former life for speculation, fantasy, money making.  He's trapped in an echo chamber of people telling him he is still distinguished and right.  He's so right about the McCann case they tell him.  Your documentary exposed the truth... Sad, because he craves the validation of the PJ who don't give him that... They know he's a joke,  This rejection spurs him on to keep acting in such a strange manner.  He knows the PJ can't comment and as such, the media will run with his stories because there is no other news about the investigation.

Sad really as i bet he did some good work in his day.

I see you are keen on works of fiction .

Just like a certain book I can think of .

[Gadfly]

Interesting how 3/4 people have come out the... (i've edited this part just in case I upset the four of you for using colloquial English)....  Stephen -- I have a huge smile on my face when I debate someone who uses The Daily Express and Amaral as the basis for their ideas.

Explain to me how MI5 works if you have the time.  I'm really interested to see if you can teach me more than Chris Andrew.  :)

I won't get reported for abuse will I for making a request? ;)

[Alfred R Jones]

MI5 were not involved in this case.

Bit of a waste of time even debating this point.

The more interesting question to ask is why did a former PJ who once had status and respect say this?

My guess...

The McCann case humiliated him.  His own did him in.  The prosecutors thought he was laughable.  More credible, talented colleagues in the PJ knew he was embarrassing the organisation.  He was essentially shown up to be what he is - a small town cop who doesn't have the ability to run and coordinate a case of this magnitude.

Once he lost his status, he traded in his former life for speculation, fantasy, money making.  He's trapped in an echo chamber of people telling him he is still distinguished and right.  He's so right about the McCann case they tell him.  Your documentary exposed the truth... Sad, because he craves the validation of the PJ who don't give him that... They know he's a joke,  This rejection spurs him on to keep acting in such a strange manner.  He knows the PJ can't comment and as such, the media will run with his stories because there is no other news about the investigation.

Sad really as i bet he did some good work in his day.

Absolutely spot on, I'd say.

[pegasus]

MI5 is the domestic branch of our intelligence services.  That means they spend their time trying to ensure London's underground doesn't see a repeat of 7/7, the peace process in Ireland doesn't collapse, while trying to stop any rogue elements in rivals' diplomatic corps from stealing British industrial, military and intelligence secrets.  The resources of MI5 are stretched to the maximum... So I'm sure when they learned that they had also been given the McCann case (a criminal case) to crack open, they all had a good laugh about that one ...

I think MI5 are responsible to the Home Office.
And I think MI6 are responsible to the Foreign Office,
speaking of which - at least Halligen used the appropriate term "MI6"
(Source: http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/11/in-s..m-today-maddie-rat-tried-to-sue.html )

[Gadfly]

True, MI5 reports to the Home Secretary, but it isn't a political toy.  The HS can't divert resources for a criminal case in another country from the domestic intelligence agency.

See this article: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/mi5-starved-of-funds-in-runup-to-july-7-attacks-1687780.html

That's the context of MI5 funding in 2005.  Any extra resources that went in from 2005-07 went on combating Islamism at home.  Not on a criminal case, being headed up by the Portuguese police... in Portugal.

If this was in a newspaper that actually only published things on the basis of reliable, verifiable sources then it would be worth something.  But it was in The Daily Express who run headlines like this http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OWatDYfHKp8/UAnTXhOn3fI/AAAAAAAARJM/7XKRwVAs3cQ/s400/express-maddie.gif because they know it'll sell a paper or two and keep those bottom rung journalists and editors in a job, while conveniently making the owner a few quid.

[pegasus]

True, MI5 reports to the Home Secretary, but it isn't a political toy.  The HS can't divert resources for a criminal case in another country from the domestic intelligence agency. ...

Yes I accept that.
But looking at other side of the coin, weren't the Foreign Office involved in this case from the start?

[Gadfly]

Yes I accept that.
But looking at other side of the coin, weren't the Foreign Office involved in this case from the start?

Probably only to liaise.

If the same thing happened to any British citizen... a kid went missing, the local dignitaries would be reporting back to the FO and the FS.

Due to this case's high profile nature, regular updates on the investigation were probably given to senior bods in the FO.

The FS has Afghanistan and Iraq on his plate during this period.  The Chief of Intelligence is not going to be buying any argument to divert resources away from the thing that is Blair's legacy -- Iraq/Afghanistan.

[Gadfly]

Your archive makes for interesting reading Stephen.  You seem to point a lot of fingers at people for abuse.  When I read through, you seemed to be dishing it out in a passive aggressive way to other posters too.  It's ok, I'm sure they forgive you and your emoticons. :)

Are you not going to take me up on my offer and kindly explain MI5 to me better than Chris Andrew could?

[stephen25000]

Your archive makes for interesting reading Stephen.  You seem to point a lot of fingers at people for abuse.  When I read through, you seemed to be dishing it out in a passive aggressive way to other posters too.  It's ok, I'm sure they forgive you and your emoticons. :)

Are you not going to take me up on my offer and kindly explain MI5 to me better than Chris Andrew could?

On one source only.

Tut, tut.

[pegasus]

Probably only to liaise.

If the same thing happened to any British citizen... a kid went missing, the local dignitaries would be reporting back to the FO and the FS.

Due to this case's high profile nature, regular updates on the investigation were probably given to senior bods in the FO.

The FS has Afghanistan and Iraq on his plate during this period.  The Chief of Intelligence is not going to be buying any argument to divert resources away from the thing that is Blair's legacy -- Iraq/Afghanistan.

In comparision the Foreign Office's allocation of their employee Ms Dodd to PDL was a tiny expense.

[Gadfly]

In comparision the Foreign Office's allocation of their employee Ms Dodd to PDL was a tiny expense.

Point taken but there is a world of difference between a FO official and someone who is a trained intelligence officer.  Trained intelligence officers are not spending time on a criminal murder that has nothing to do with national security, full stop. 

[sadie]

Welcome Gadfly

Good to have another expert on board.