Kate McCann admits in her book that private criminal investigations in Portugal were illegal.

[ferryman]

again in your opinion but the FACT is those actions took place outside portugal and not under the jurisdiction of portuguese law

That's the concise version ....

[Alfred R Jones]

Funny you should mention flights, was that an attempt at humour?   

Gerry certainly was on the verge of fleeing if Kate's account in her book is to be believed.

No, it was not an attempt at humour.  You stated that the McCanns scarpered from Portugal at the earliest available opportunity.  That would have presumably been the day after Madeleine vanished, and every other day thereafter. Clearly therefore they did NOT take the first opportunity to leave Portugal, and instead stayed there for months allowing the PJ ample time to investigate them thoroughly and to attempt to build a case against them. 

[ferryman]

so was Mrs Murat breaking the law...of course she wasn't...I think some posters are confused

Interesting question ....

[Mr Gray]

No, it was not an attempt at humour.  You stated that the McCanns scarpered from Portugal at the earliest available opportunity.  That would have presumably been the day after Madeleine vanished, and every other day thereafter. Clearly therefore they did NOT take the first opportunity to leave Portugal, and instead stayed there for months allowing the PJ ample time to investigate them thoroughly and to attempt to build a case against them.

some peopel seem unwilling to move forward.....there are several very good reasons why the McCanns left portugal but posters want to pretend none exist

[Lace]

Quote from?

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id76.html

[ferryman]

some peopel seem unwilling to move forward.....there are several very good reasons why the McCanns left portugal but posters want to pretend none exist

Key point (that even some moderators don't seem to want to acknowledge): The McCanns left Portugal with the agreement of the PJ.

There was no question of them trying to 'flee justice'.

They couldn't, even if they'd wanted to, other than, possibly, by fleeing Europe.

If Portugal had wanted the McCanns to return to Portugal to stand trial for anything, they could have raised an European Arrest Warrant (if the McCanns had refused to return voluntarily).

As it was, the Portuguese prosecutors reviewed the 'evidence' and recognised (at least those parts of it accusing the McCanns) as a pile of crock ....

[Angelo222]

again in your opinion but the FACT is those actions took place outside portugal and not under the jurisdiction of portuguese law

Some did agreed but they still impacted the official investigation.  Far from progressing the case all Oakley and M3 achieved was broken promises and alienated potential witnesses.

[Angelo222]

again in your opinion but the FACT is those actions took place outside portugal and not under the jurisdiction of portuguese law

No, not in my opinion but fact.  We all know what happened to little Bushra whose parents were made to look like child traffickers. We know that Martin Smith was pressurised to tone down his identification of Gerry McCann. We know there were false sightings reported in order to justify the huge sums being paid to PI's.

All of it was one big fat lie. I won't even mention the conspiracy to destroy the lead detective Amaral which was funded by M3 and fronted by Marcos Correia.  All of which was in turn paid for by Kennedy and the McCanns on the pretence they were searching for Madeleine.  They must think were stupid or all least f...ing tossers to have swallowed such total crap.

[Angelo222]

Key point (that even some moderators don't seem to want to acknowledge): The McCanns left Portugal with the agreement of the PJ.

There was no question of them trying to 'flee justice'.

They couldn't, even if they'd wanted to, other than, possibly, by fleeing Europe.

If Portugal had wanted the McCanns to return to Portugal to stand trial for anything, they could have raised an European Arrest Warrant (if the McCanns had refused to return voluntarily).

As it was, the Portuguese prosecutors reviewed the 'evidence' and recognised (at least those parts of it accusing the McCanns) as a pile of crock ....

Stop splitting hairs ferryman.  Kate admitted in her book that Gerry was on the verge of fleeing the moment arguido was mentioned.  Agreed in the end they stayed and did leave with the PJ's nod but that doesn't make it right.  They went home but at least one of them should have returned to progress matters and encourage the PJ to pursue their investigation anew.  This is what bothers most people, the fact that they never did do any searches in Portugal.

Final point, they couldn't even be bothered to go back and assist with a police reconstruction so returning voluntarily as defendants is an open to speculation.

[Mr Gray]

No, not in my opinion but fact.  We all know what happened to little Bushra whose parents were made to look like child traffickers. We know that Martin Smith was pressurised to tone down his identification of Gerry McCann. We know there were false sightings reported in order to justify the huge sums being paid to PI's.

All of it was one big fat lie. I won't even mention the conspiracy to destroy the lead detective Amaral which was funded by M3 and fronted by Marcos Correia.  All of which was in turn paid for by Kennedy and the McCanns on the pretence they were searching for Madeleine.  They must think were fcuking stupid or all least fcuking tossers to have swallowed such total crap.

I'll just pick you up on this one,...what evidence do you have that smith was pressurised to tone down his ID...you need to provide a cite...you won't be able to...are you now simply making things up

[Carana]

Key point (that even some moderators don't seem to want to acknowledge): The McCanns left Portugal with the agreement of the PJ.

There was no question of them trying to 'flee justice'.

They couldn't, even if they'd wanted to, other than, possibly, by fleeing Europe.

If Portugal had wanted the McCanns to return to Portugal to stand trial for anything, they could have raised an European Arrest Warrant (if the McCanns had refused to return voluntarily).

As it was, the Portuguese prosecutors reviewed the 'evidence' and recognised (at least those parts of it accusing the McCanns) as a pile of crock ....

Their lease was at an end and they'd negotiated an extension to stay on there  to be present for the arguido interviews...

[ShiningInLuz]

I can find nothing that would indicate that anyone whose means of finding information is legal and providing that all such information is duly transmitted in the entirety to the authorities, is any way illegal.

If, for instance, you had means to count how many manholes were potentially open during the ongoing public works at the time in PdL... is that illegal?

The sections you posted cover an awful lot of crimes, such as entering the property/land of a person without permission.  And worse still if you are asked to leave and fail to do so promptly.

There are significant restrictions on what one individual can ask of a second individual, and passing that on to the authorities would not absolve you of guilt.

There is a yet higher level of restriction if you do this in a professional capacity.

So I, as a private individual not a professional investigator, would get more lee way than a PI, albeit still with a raft of no-go areas.

I cannot see how investigative journalists (professionals) could make much progress and remain legal in Portugal.

The constitution enshrines the right to discuss any case in Portugal, but judicial secrecy would restrict that to information in the public domain.

I see Mrs Murat's effort has gotten a mention.  There was nothing to stop her inviting people to voluntarily pass information to her.  That's discussing.  If she investigated, she probably broke the law. If she shared any of several items of information with Robert, I would say the police could have made a case against her.  Of course, at the time, police energies were directed elsewhere.

Wandering round Luz, counting manholes, and/or discussing known facts would not be problematical.

However, if I were to track down John Hill (easy on a number of fronts) then obviously anything covered in his witness statement is off-limits, as are enquiries about how the OG interview was conducted and which questions were asked.  Effectively, this makes him useless as a source of information at this time.

[xtina]

No, not in my opinion but fact.  We all know what happened to little Bushra whose parents were made to look like child traffickers. We know that Martin Smith was pressurised to tone down his identification of Gerry McCann. We know there were false sightings reported in order to justify the huge sums being paid to PI's.

All of it was one big fat lie. I won't even mention the conspiracy to destroy the lead detective Amaral which was funded by M3 and fronted by Marcos Correia.  All of which was in turn paid for by Kennedy and the McCanns on the pretence they were searching for Madeleine.  They must think were fcuking stupid or all least fcuking tossers to have swallowed such total crap.

well said ....absolutely spot on...............

this is there problem now .....those that have not swallowed it

all that matters to them now ....is the fund ....money etc...etc ..to pay the lawyers ......to keep there head above water ....for now

[ferryman]

I'll just pick you up on this one,...what evidence do you have that smith was pressurised to tone down his ID...you need to provide a cite...you won't be able to...are you now simply making things up

Perhaps Angelo is, ahem, 'reinterpreting' that part of Martin Smith's statement where he said that, before making his statement to the Irish Gardia police, he canvassed the opinions of his whole family, with him that night, and that all his children disagreed with him (that the man was Gerry), including his daughter, Aofe, (at least of those witnesses whose statements we read on line), for me, far the most observant witness of what the Smiths all saw that night.

It was on that basis that I, for a long time, believed it might have been Aofe who produced the second e-fit.

But in fact, it was Mr Smith's wife ....

[ShiningInLuz]

Perhaps Angelo is, ahem, 'reinterpreting' that part of Martin Smith's statement where he said that, before making his statement to the Irish Gardia police, he canvassed the opinions of his whole family, with him that night, and that all his children disagreed with him (that the man was Gerry), including his daughter, Aofe, (at least of those witnesses whose statements we read on line), for me, far the most observant witness of what the Smiths all saw that night.

It was on that basis that I, for a long time, believed it might have been Aofe who produced the second e-fit.

But in fact, it was Mr Smith's wife ....

No doubt this has been covered before and is deep in the bowels of the forum.

But how is it known who produced the second e-fit?