The Lies of Jeremy Bamber

[starryian]

I think the wetsuit theory sounds like a Donald Duck story - no offence! Just too "out there" in my opinion.

Possibly Abs, but no more ridiculous than what we have heard in Bambers defense.

[John]

I've got to say Ian, for all the mistakes that Bamber made, would he have left such a potentially incriminating piece of clothing at the scene?

You would have thought so would you? However, I believe that Bamber thought he could get away with it without much difficulty. If he did wear and then dispose of the wetsuit he knew it couldn't be linked to him. He probably removed it because it would have looked highly suspicious if the police pulled him over he would have a lot of explaining to do. Also he would have been sweating profusely from his cycling exertions and rubber is a non-porous material. He would have almost certainly overheated. So it makes perfect sense to dump it straight after the murders. However, this is pure speculation as there is no evidence. It is very interesting though 

Him discarding it is a distinct possibility but he had ever opportunity to retrieve it afterwards and dispose of it properly but didn't?  An ideas on that?

[sika]

What I find most terrifying about Bamber is that, having heard him speak in that interview whilst in prison, he comes across as so normal and believable!  This is why people defend him, they just can't believe that he could ever have been capable of committing these crimes.  They have completely lost sight of the overwhelming evidence. 

Sloppy Joes was actually in Colchester.  I don't think it's still there but I did go there a couple of times in the 90's when I briefly lived there. 

[sika]

I've got to say Ian, for all the mistakes that Bamber made, would he have left such a potentially incriminating piece of clothing at the scene?

You would have thought so would you? However, I believe that Bamber thought he could get away with it without much difficulty. If he did wear and then dispose of the wetsuit he knew it couldn't be linked to him. He probably removed it because it would have looked highly suspicious if the police pulled him over he would have a lot of explaining to do. Also he would have been sweating profusely from his cycling exertions and rubber is a non-porous material. He would have almost certainly overheated. So it makes perfect sense to dump it straight after the murders. However, this is pure speculation as there is no evidence. It is very interesting though 

Mmmmm... Good points!

[cathiethesceptic]

Gotta say Abs  --  in the league of far out theories,the old wet-suit minus flippers(!),seems pretty reasonable,compared to the massive  Tower of Pisa like c,onstruction of theories -- with special mention for Sheila's sudden development of ox-like strength - which pro JBs seem to  swallow with never a moment's scepticism

Like you Sika,I'm led to concluding JB's guilt,by just not being able to find Sheila guilty 'beyond reasonable doubt' based on the evidence available

I think Jeremy was just too clever by half with the Neville phone-call,which ,whichever way youlook at it ,just does not add up as a  the action of a man in fear of his life and presumably wanting,at all costs to protect his wife and his little grandsons.If he,or they,had already been shot he would have called an ambulance,not Jeremy  -- I'm sure he would not have thought of that as 'involving offialdom'.If he had not already been shot,I'm sure his time would have been trying to either get the gun off Sheila or trying to talk her into giving it up

Course,soon as anybody mentions such likely human behaviour to pro JBs you get shreiked at that you weren't there,where's your proof,you want an innocent man to rot in jail etc  -- whereas I do think that one is entitled to work out the most likely course of action a rational human being would take,and I guess the requisite no of jurors must have agreed

[cathiethesceptic]

To me,he sounds like a parody of normal
His comments about 'poor Sheila,of course nobody in those days understood about women who kill their children,she is more to be pitied,than condemned blah,blah blah 'I found horribly phoney
For a real taste of JB read his letters to Colin Caffell  they are vicious and utterly nasty - and yet pro JBs said that they were totally understandable for a poor,lost lonely boy!

[Dillon]

As has been pointed out psychopaths can be extremely deceptive. Years ago I was alone on night duty on a locked psychiatric ward when a young psychopath jumped on my back and tried to strangle me simply because I had refused him an extra dose of sleeping pills. He was usually a delightful apparently friendly young chap; butter would not melt ! However, if you looked at his file... wow. He had done the most dramatic criminal damage but just meeting him you would find it unbeleivable.  I find it hard to understand the evolution of Bamber's psychopathy. A nice apparently normal young child, a rather immature but it seems pleasant young man in his mid teens and then tragically imo a lethal Amaral psychopath by the time of the murders. Maybe others can explain how this untreatable severe psychiatric disorder arose but I am convinced that he is highly dangerous and for the safety of others must be securely and safely contained. I am not sure that concepts of responsibiliy, punishment etc really have much relevance with individuals lacking normal moral inhibitions like Bamber. 

[starryian]

What I find most terrifying about Bamber is that, having heard him speak in that interview whilst in prison, he comes across as so normal and believable!  This is why people defend him, they just can't believe that he could ever have been capable of committing these crimes.  They have completely lost sight of the overwhelming evidence. 

Sloppy Joes was actually in Colchester.  I don't think it's still there but I did go there a couple of times in the 90's when I briefly lived there.

OK Sika. Thank you. Colchester yes. Sorry for the mistake.
Bamber is a psychopath with a permanent hidden agenda and as such they generally need to keep this aspect of their personality well under wraps. They are very persuasive, charming, charismatic and fun to be around. This is the side they want you to see. They will often cultivate it and use it when necessary. A psychopath has an almost chameleon-like ability to fit in with the social situation developing around them. They learn very quickly which buttons to push and which egos to massage, and are masters at finding a person's vulnerablities very quickly. It is these that are later exploited for their own ends. Psychopaths see others merely as facilitators to obtain what they need. Once this has been accomplished they will no longer have any use for them and are discarded relatively quickly. They will then move on in search of other victims. Bamber is just such a predator.

[Dillon]

Hogpile . Oh dear keep taking the pills mate. You will soon feel better.

[starryian]

I've got to say Ian, for all the mistakes that Bamber made, would he have left such a potentially incriminating piece of clothing at the scene?

You would have thought so would you? However, I believe that Bamber thought he could get away with it without much difficulty. If he did wear and then dispose of the wetsuit he knew it couldn't be linked to him. He probably removed it because it would have looked highly suspicious if the police pulled him over he would have a lot of explaining to do. Also he would have been sweating profusely from his cycling exertions and rubber is a non-porous material. He would have almost certainly overheated. So it makes perfect sense to dump it straight after the murders. However, this is pure speculation as there is no evidence. It is very interesting though 

Him discarding it is a distinct possibility but he had ever opportunity to retrieve it afterwards and dispose of it properly but didn't?  An ideas on that?

May have been too risky John. We have to remember that he thought that he'd gotten clean away with it. Police also thought this was an open and shut case of four murders and suicide. They would have had no reason to suspct Bamber's involvement and he had no reason to risk retrieving it. Just a theory   

[cathiethesceptic]

For me JB shows strong narcissistic traits  I'm no expert,I hasten to add,but there was acase in 2005 or 2006 of a young guy who murdered both his parents,then ran up£30k on his dad's credit card taking his girl friend to America on holiday.He also pretended to be a grand slam tennis player,even though he had never played tennis before Anyway,he was the 1st person in the UK to mount a defence of not guilty of murder,by reason of suffering from Narcissistic Personality Disorder  and there is just something about what I have read about that reminds me of a certain JB

Not very scientific I know!

[sika]

Great post earlier Ian, regarding Bamber being a physcopath.  Do we know if any 'incidents' have occurred whilst he has been in prison?  I'm sure I read that he had been attacked at least once.

[abs]

For me JB shows strong narcissistic traits  I'm no expert,I hasten to add,but there was acase in 2005 or 2006 of a young guy who murdered both his parents,then ran up£30k on his dad's credit card taking his girl friend to America on holiday.He also pretended to be a grand slam tennis player,even though he had never played tennis before Anyway,he was the 1st person in the UK to mount a defence of not guilty of murder,by reason of suffering from Narcissistic Personality Disorder  and there is just something about what I have read about that reminds me of a certain JB

Not very scientific I know!

I know about that case - that guy was something else! The photos of him from that trip reveal nothing about what he had done!

[cathiethesceptic]

Yeah,the sort of parallels which struck me  --  holiday in ST Trop,expensive meals out,designer clothes shopping spree,calling in Sotheby's valuation team to price up the family silver
Now,I know we all react differently to bereavement but this strikes me as at the far end of the outlandish spectrum and showing a deep sense of self regard/narcissism

[abs]

Yeah,the sort of parallels which struck me  --  holiday in ST Trop,expensive meals out,designer clothes shopping spree,calling in Sotheby's valuation team to price up the family silver
Now,I know we all react differently to bereavement but this strikes me as at the far end of the outlandish spectrum and showing a deep sense of self regard/narcissism

I don´t think Jeremy pretended to be something he wasn´t. Sure he liked to spend money, and you could say that he was trying to give the impression of being rich. So many people do that; but this guy was quite detailed about his fake tennis career - he took it very far!