The Lies of Jeremy Bamber

[puglove]

Everyone knows that the caravan park robbery was about money and nothing else.  It perfectly illustrated not only his, but also Julie Mugfords desire for money.  I think Julie initially chose not to grass Jeremy up for the murders because she liked the idea of living the high life with him, funded by his considerable inheritance.  It was only as time passed that her conscience got the better of her, either that or she realised that the game would soon be up.

It's terrible to think that she might have prevented the murders if she'd only told someone what JB had been planning for months. But would anyone have believed her? Ralph, maybe, he was already suspicious. But he was expecting to be shot as some sort of accident. Not at night when everyone was in bed.

Who did Neville share these thoughts with?

He spoke to Barbara Wilson, more than once. They were quite close, and it upset her to see Ralph so worried. He started to look ill because of it all. He was a good man, and obviously fought to the death. Very, very sad.

[sika]

Thanks for that Shona, I thought that was the case.  I think that Mrs Wilson's evidence was inadmissible because it was hearsay.  Is that right, do you know?

[puglove]

Thanks for that Shona, I thought that was the case.  I think that Mrs Wilson's evidence was inadmissible because it was hearsay.  Is that right, do you know?

Sorry, I'm not sure. I'd have to read up. I was impressed with her in the last documentary. She came across as very honest and convincing. She had a shock when she returned to the farm to find JB with his feet up on Ralph's desk, but with all of Ralph's effects removed.

[cathiethesceptic]

According to bob woffinden,it would be admissable now because of changes in the rules of hearsay evidence,but when some body raised that on the JB forum NGB poo-pooed it,in his usual pompous pedantic way,so i don't know It would be good if she were able to testify how Ralph said 'I must never turn my back on that young man' and 'Its the rabbit shooting season soon - we don't want people getting their inheritance early,do we?' a bit prescient on his part,don't you think..........

[puglove]

According to bob woffinden,it would be admissable now because of changes in the rules of hearsay evidence,but when some body raised that on the JB forum NGB poo-pooed it,in his usual pompous pedantic way,so i don't know It would be good if she were able to testify how Ralph said 'I must never turn my back on that young man' and 'Its the rabbit shooting season soon - we don't want people getting their inheritance early,do we?' a bit prescient on his part,don't you think..........

Sadly, yes. That's how Ralph expected to die, as a shooting "accident." I don't think it crossed his mind, until the last moments of his life, that the whole family were in danger. Even the twins.

[cathiethesceptic]

Yes,and on that terribly sad note I'm off to bed with my cheery new book about serial killers
Good night all  -- really enjoyed this eve on the forum,once it was accepted that I am no KC,whoever he is...

[sika]

Goodnight Cathie

[puglove]

According to bob woffinden,it would be admissable now because of changes in the rules of hearsay evidence,but when some body raised that on the JB forum NGB poo-pooed it,in his usual pompous pedantic way,so i don't know It would be good if she were able to testify how Ralph said 'I must never turn my back on that young man' and 'Its the rabbit shooting season soon - we don't want people getting their inheritance early,do we?' a bit prescient on his part,don't you think..........

Goodnight!! Supporters construe Ralph's comment about never turning his back on JB as being supportive. I don't think so.

[cathiethesceptic]

Typical tosh on their part,but then any body who can call a vicious killer 'poor jeremy' is a sandwich short of a pick -nick,imho

Night Shona and you other smart ladies

[Admin]

Everyone knows that the caravan park robbery was about money and nothing else.  It perfectly illustrated not only his, but also Julie Mugfords desire for money.  I think Julie initially chose not to grass Jeremy up for the murders because she liked the idea of living the high life with him, funded by his considerable inheritance.  It was only as time passed that her conscience got the better of her, either that or she realised that the game would soon be up.

We certainly do with that Sika.  Julie liked the idea of being the mistress at WHF but at what price?

[Admin]

i read somewhere  --  sorry,can't think where,might have been Colin Caffell's book that it was £900 and he spent it on booze for the cottage at goldhanger and a meal out with Julie and some other friends
I sometimes think how creepy that  poor old Neville died,not even knowing that his own son robbed him in such a callous way

In her statements Julie says that the money was used to part furnish the house in Goldhanger.

[Admin]

According to bob woffinden,it would be admissable now because of changes in the rules of hearsay evidence,but when some body raised that on the JB forum NGB poo-pooed it,in his usual pompous pedantic way,so i don't know It would be good if she were able to testify how Ralph said 'I must never turn my back on that young man' and 'Its the rabbit shooting season soon - we don't want people getting their inheritance early,do we?' a bit prescient on his part,don't you think..........

What you state is perfectly correct.  There is much damming evidence which was classed as hearsay in 1986 but would be allowed now if Jeremy was retried.

[starryian]

Gotta say Abs  --  in the league of far out theories,the old wet-suit minus flippers(!),seems pretty reasonable,compared to the massive  Tower of Pisa like c,onstruction of theories -- with special mention for Sheila's sudden development of ox-like strength - which pro JBs seem to  swallow with never a moment's scepticism

Like you Sika,I'm led to concluding JB's guilt,by just not being able to find Sheila guilty 'beyond reasonable doubt' based on the evidence available

I think Jeremy was just too clever by half with the Neville phone-call,which ,whichever way youlook at it ,just does not add up as a  the action of a man in fear of his life and presumably wanting,at all costs to protect his wife and his little grandsons.If he,or they,had already been shot he would have called an ambulance,not Jeremy  -- I'm sure he would not have thought of that as 'involving offialdom'.If he had not already been shot,I'm sure his time would have been trying to either get the gun off Sheila or trying to talk her into giving it up

Course,soon as anybody mentions such likely human behaviour to pro JBs you get shreiked at that you weren't there,where's your proof,you want an innocent man to rot in jail etc  -- whereas I do think that one is entitled to work out the most likely course of action a rational human being would take,and I guess the requisite no of jurors must have agreed

Good points Cathy,
A thought has just struck me. Why would Nevil call Jeremy when June had just been shot? Nevil couldn't have not noticed! Surely the logical thing to do would have been to call an ambulance as Cathy rightly states. They were both in the same bedroom together and both had been shot, so why would Nevil call Jeremy?. Moreover, Nevil's injuried were such that he would not have been able to speak much less call Jeremy. There was no blood on the telephone - unbelievable if Nevil had handled it (he was shot several times upstairs. It is yet further proof that Nevil's supposed phone call to Jeremy is nothing more than a downright lie. It did not happen and could not have happened.
Moreover, I have noticed something odd about the position of the telephone receiver. It was left off the hook and placed on the worktop - BUT it has been placed with the receiver facing the right. I believe that Nevil was right handed and his left arm had been shot - this excluseds him from placing down that phone. The way the receiver is placed indictes someone who is left handed. I will investigate this more thoroughly.

[Dillon]

Morning guys. Clearly an interesting and thoughtful discussion yesterday evening. Cath mentioned NGB in passing and I am sorry to hear that he gets up your nose ! To me he has always appeared the calming voice of reason on the Bamber forum but an enigma . Why does a clearly intelligent, professionally qualified lawyer BELEIVE Bamber's lies ?  To the point of having cosy chats with him on the phone, advising on his defence, playing a leading role in the running of a forum permeated with bizarre and repetitive theorising etc . Mr Neil Bellis is no lightweight. He has been very successful in business but like others has perhaps been unlucky with the impact of the recession. What is it about Bamber that can attract such loyalty and involvement in time and money from otherwise capable and normal individuals ? He lives down your way, Cath, as I suspect you know. Isfield Place I think near Uckfield currently on the market for £9.5 million. Perhaps you should drop in some time for afternoon tea and croquet on the lawn ( if the weather allows ) and see if you can gain some insight into why Bamber is apparently so beleivable when the main plank of his case is that his butchered sister was a maniacal killer despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Your best bib and tucker please, though, Cath and not those worn Vietnam war era kaftans and polish up the Moggie ! Maybe some of you other bright sparks could also help enlighten me on this

[starryian]

According to bob woffinden,it would be admissable now because of changes in the rules of hearsay evidence,but when some body raised that on the JB forum NGB poo-pooed it,in his usual pompous pedantic way,so i don't know It would be good if she were able to testify how Ralph said 'I must never turn my back on that young man' and 'Its the rabbit shooting season soon - we don't want people getting their inheritance early,do we?' a bit prescient on his part,don't you think..........

Sadly, yes. That's how Ralph expected to die, as a shooting "accident." I don't think it crossed his mind, until the last moments of his life, that the whole family were in danger. Even the twins.

Yes good point Shona,
Nevil would have been acutely aware of what was happening to him. He must have realised the awful truth when Bamber burst into their bedroom and shot June. Those last moments of his life would have been unimaginable as they were for other family members. I wonder whether Nevil realised at this point the sheer evil that he had raised in his house. I believe that Bamber had threatened Nevil on several occasions leading up the the murders. Colin Caffell believes that Nevil kept a folder on Jeremy and was going to hand it in to the police because he realised that Bamber was behind the burglary at the Osea Road Caravan Park. He may also have been aware that Bamber had made enquiries about buying a gun. This does explain why Bamber, a  few days after the murders was seen frantically looking for something in his fathers office and it may not have been just cash.