The Lies of Jeremy Bamber

[abs]

I think shona has thought all along that Jeremy was guilty, Andrea changed her mind.

Hi ABS, If I got that wrong about Shona I am sorry but in monitoring the Bamber forum, I was impressed by Shona's courageous standing up for Sheila. I guess that you still feel that Sheila was capable of the murders.
From what I know, I think that the severity of her mental health problems has been much exagerated . She had quite a rough deal from her husband but I do not want to slag him off as he suffered a terrible loss. I know how difficult it is to bring up children as a single Mum, the more so with twins, so imo her mental health problems are understandable.  I also feel, having had plenty of dealings with psychiatrists, that some of their assessments should be treated with caution !  I suspect too that the bit about being the child of the Devil etc has been taken out of context. My understanding is that June found her in the field having sex with Colin not long after Sheila had already had a termination, so would not have needed to be hyper religious to be pretty cross 

I do respect the fact that you present your arguments in a couteous way but I really think that you need to consider how the forensic evidence makes it highly unlikely that she was the perpetrator.

I don´t know, it is in one of her psychiatrist´s medical reports about her. It also says that the twins - Nicholas in particular - was capable of having sex with her/rape her. They were six... How can that be taken out of context?
My mind is made up as far as the info I have seen - I am undecided as I was from day one. I haven´t seen anything to convince me that Jeremy did the murders (alone).
Anyway, it doesn´t really matter what I think! 

[Andrea]

Apart from Sheilas mental illness, what other evidence is there that Sheila carried out the shootings? None!

The mental illness sheila had doesnt make her a killer either, we only have jb's word that the discussion about the twins took place.

[abs]

Apart from Sheilas mental illness, what other evidence is there that Sheila carried out the shootings? None!

The mental illness sheila had doesnt make her a killer either, we only have jb's word that the discussion about the twins took place.

There is no evidence that Jeremy did either.

P.S. The EP botched this investigation big time, 66 police officers are recorded at the scene with 49 of them stomping through the house while the bodies were still there.
Evidence was burned the day after the murders (and seriously, you can´t blame this one on Jeremy!). Remaining evidence was destroyed in 1996 (and I repeat, exactly in 1996 DNA science had taken major leaps forward, why on Earth destroy evidence exactly then?)
There is no way I can make up my mind either way with such a mishandled case and bungled (destroyed) evidence. It is all speculation - some of it fiction, really.

[starryian]

Apart from Sheilas mental illness, what other evidence is there that Sheila carried out the shootings? None!

The mental illness sheila had doesnt make her a killer either, we only have jb's word that the discussion about the twins took place.

There is no evidence that Jeremy did either.

P.S. The EP botched this investigation big time, 66 police officers are recorded at the scene with 49 of them stomping through the house while the bodies were still there.
Evidence was burned the day after the murders (and seriously, you can´t blame this one on Jeremy!). Remaining evidence was destroyed in 1996 (and I repeat, exactly in 1996 DNA science had taken major leaps forward, why on Earth destroy evidence exactly then?)
There is no way I can make up my mind either way. It is all speculation - some of it fiction, really.

Abs, it is not as difficult as you believe it to be. It boils down to these simple facts; Either it was Sheila OR it was Jeremy. It cannot be anyone else. Bamber had backed himself into a corner by claiming to have received the call from his father. But if Nevill hadn’t telephoned, there was no way Jeremy could have known about the murders unless he’d been somehow involved. If the call had happened, Bamber had no reason to lie about its contents, and Nevill’s statement that Sheila had gone crazy with a gun. Therefore the only possible culprits were Sheila or himself – and forensic evidence strongly suggested Sheila didn’t do it. Bamber, however made fatal mistakes. The silencer could only have been placed back in the cupboard by a person that was alive not dead. The silencer was used to shoot Sheila. Abs, this is what the evidence suggests, She could NOT have put in back in the cupboard. Sheila WAS murdered. This makes the phone call to Nevil a lie there can be NO other explanation and the ONLY reason Bamber had to lie was if he himself was involved.
Abs Andrea is absolutely right. There is no evidence whatsoever that Shiela was involved. If it was not Sheila it MUST have been Bamber at the exclusion of all others at the farm that night. Please feel free to put any points forward to dispute this and I will happily to to answer.

[Andrea]

They are the facts, Ian.

It could only have been jeremy or sheila, there is no evidence it was Sheila, that only leaves Jeremy, and yes because of the alleged phone call.

[Dillon]

I think shona has thought all along that Jeremy was guilty, Andrea changed her mind.

Hi ABS, If I got that wrong about Shona I am sorry but in monitoring the Bamber forum, I was impressed by Shona's courageous standing up for Sheila. I guess that you still feel that Sheila was capable of the murders.
From what I know, I think that the severity of her mental health problems has been much exagerated . She had quite a rough deal from her husband but I do not want to slag him off as he suffered a terrible loss. I know how difficult it is to bring up children as a single Mum, the more so with twins, so imo her mental health problems are understandable.  I also feel, having had plenty of dealings with psychiatrists, that some of their assessments should be treated with caution !  I suspect too that the bit about being the child of the Devil etc has been taken out of context. My understanding is that June found her in the field having sex with Colin not long after Sheila had already had a termination, so would not have needed to be hyper religious to be pretty cross 

I do respect the fact that you present your arguments in a couteous way but I really think that you need to consider how the forensic evidence makes it highly unlikely that she was the perpetrator.

I don´t know, it is in one of her psychiatrist´s medical reports about her. It also says that the twins - Nicholas in particular - was capable of having sex with her/rape her. They were six... How can that be taken out of context?
My mind is made up as far as the info I have seen - I am undecided as I was from day one. I haven´t seen anything to convince me that Jeremy did the murders (alone).
Anyway, it doesn´t really matter what I think! 

Actually ABS I think that it does matter what you think. Goatboy outines it very clearly. In view of the telephone call from Bamber to the Police hat his father had rung him to say that Sheila had gone crazy, had got hold of a gun etc there is incontravertible evidence that he was implicated if all the other evidence shows that she could not have been responsible.  Forget  the other evidence about moderators, Julie Mugford's testimony etc,  You can analyse Sheila's psychiatric history endlessly but it is irrelevant. Under some circumstances, she might have had an acute psychotic event but none of that fits with the evidence relating to the physical state she was found in.
The Police investigation was a disgrace and imo the prosecution's case was poorly presented so it is quite easy to pick holes in the detail. But that does not alter the fundamental evidence that implicates him. It is just possible that someone else did the actual shooting but that does not affect his complicity and guilt as a murderer .

Starryian has now reinforced what I have stated above. I agree with every word of his latest post. He has an extraordinarily good grasp of the case. And I am sorry if you are upset Mertol. There is a saying that losers tend to back losers .

[Tim Invictus]

They are the facts, Ian.

It could only have been jeremy or sheila, there is no evidence it was Sheila, that only leaves Jeremy, and yes because of the alleged phone call.

True there is no evidence it was Sheila but crucially there is a mountain of evidence in wasn't Sheila. If it wasn't Sheila then it had to be Jeremy.

[puglove]

Even JB's own website seems to have issues passing the 2 phone calls off as from different people, it's 'funny' that the audio recordings got destroyed after 28 days. I cannot believe the 999 people would destroy it  8-)(--)
Most crime biographies play the 999/911 calls but not in his case, thats one I've never heard, even Tom cressman's 999 call was played from an attack Jane Andrews did BEFORE he was murdered, so the notion it was lost isn't good. They try to pass it off as destroyed.
How long was it before they arrested JB and said it was murder? Or should I say how long after the murders was it that they realised Sheila hadn't done it and a murder might have occured?

Tom Cressman's parents used to live about half a mile from me. It's a small world, Joanne!

[puglove]

They are the facts, Ian.

It could only have been jeremy or sheila, there is no evidence it was Sheila, that only leaves Jeremy, and yes because of the alleged phone call.

True there is no evidence it was Sheila but crucially there is a mountain of evidence in wasn't Sheila. If it wasn't Sheila then it had to be Jeremy.

I still think (supposition, I know, but...) if Ralph called JB, especially if he had already called the police, he would have warned JB to stay OUT of WHF, to save himself. Not to invite an unarmed JB into certain danger. And at what stage would Ralph have risked leaving Sheila, waving a loaded gun about, to make those phone calls?

[jackiepreece]

Toms girlfriend is out of prison this year or next, that's not long for a life is it

[puglove]

Toms girlfriend is out of prison this year or next, that's not long for a life is it

Didn't she set herself back a bit, when she got obsessed with that poor bloke and escaped? Apparently, Tom was a really nice man (his brother is still local, I think, at Nailcote Hall) and the family were demolished when Jane Andrews tried to go with self defence.

[puglove]

Toms girlfriend is out of prison this year or next, that's not long for a life is it

Didn't she set herself back a bit, when she got obsessed with that poor bloke and escaped? Apparently, Tom was a really nice man (his brother is still local, I think, at Nailcote Hall) and the family were demolished when Jane Andrews tried to go with self defence.

And wasn't it weird that she worked for Fergie, and was a sort of mini-me?

[starryian]

They are the facts, Ian.

It could only have been jeremy or sheila, there is no evidence it was Sheila, that only leaves Jeremy, and yes because of the alleged phone call.

True there is no evidence it was Sheila but crucially there is a mountain of evidence in wasn't Sheila. If it wasn't Sheila then it had to be Jeremy.

I still think (supposition, I know, but...) if Ralph called JB, especially if he had already called the police, he would have warned JB to stay OUT of WHF, to save himself. Not to invite an unarmed JB into certain danger. And at what stage would Ralph have risked leaving Sheila, waving a loaded gun about, to make those phone calls?

A very good point Shona,
It seems absurd to me that Nevil would have phoned Jeremy at all. I cannot conceive of a single reason why a house full of people under supposed imminent threat from a deranged woman with a loaded gun and the father decides to call his son with the news? To what end? Did he expect Jeremy to rush to the house and put himself into the firing line also? or did he phone Jeremy as a cry for help for him to phone police. Absolutely nonsensical. There was no viable reason why Nevil would call a son whom he belived to be a lazy, untrustworthy wastrel when he could have called 999 in such an emergency. Why would he phone Jeremy who, at this hour was likely to be asleep and risk getting no answer in an immediate and deadly situation when he could simply dial 999 and receive an immediate response?
There are simple answers to this; the phone call did not happen. It was pure Bamber invention. The family were dead by the time Bamber said his father had phoned him.
The question then remains; why did Bamber phone the police at all? Why didn't he just leave it and wait for someone else to discover the bodies? The answer here is also simplistic and straightforward. Bamber simply wanted to send out a clear message that he was not present at the farm when the killings took place. If someone else discovered the bodies Bamber would have had a lengthy period of time to account for his whereabouts. He was due to go to work early that morning. He couldn't be sure that someone would have found the bodies in time. The phone call was his alibi and one of his biggest mistakes.

[puglove]

Toms girlfriend is out of prison this year or next, that's not long for a life is it

Didn't she set herself back a bit, when she got obsessed with that poor bloke and escaped? Apparently, Tom was a really nice man (his brother is still local, I think, at Nailcote Hall) and the family were demolished when Jane Andrews tried to go with self defence.

Sorry, I meant to say that "that poor bloke" wasn't Tom, it was a geezer that she wrote to, through a prison newspaper, and became totally obsessed with him, and sent him flowery messages of undying love. He'd just asked her if she needed more tights and a pot noodle.

[jackiepreece]

If Jane Andrews escaped because of another bloke she shouldn't be let out, he will be the next victim


How are the horses Shona?