Social worker who attended the scene later told police she was suspicious.

[DCI]

Where does it say that ? what is your source?

I thought you had read her statements.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm

[jassi]

I thought you had read her statements.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm

Ok, found it now in a different section to where she talks about the anonymous letter, so no indication when it was sent, or who it was sent to ( other than UK police).

[ferryman]

She says that about two weeks after Madeleine's disappearance, when the police made an appeal for information about a man, carrying a child, who had been seen in the Luz zone, and whose clothing was described, she wrote an anonymous letter to the British police, telling them the following: : regarding the various details she observed during her contact with the McCanns it is her opinion that they could be in some way involved in the disappearance of Madeleine.

Here is what I am referring to:

She says that about two weeks after Madeleine's disappearance, when the police made an appeal for information about a man, carrying a child, who had been seen in the Luz zone, and whose clothing was described, she wrote an anonymous letter to the British police, telling them the following: : regarding the various details she observed during her contact with the McCanns it is her opinion that they could be in some way involved in the disappearance of Madeleine.

She first found them aggressive and their reaction after she showed Madeleine's parents her credentials, also seemed strange to her. Afterwards she was informed that there were no signs of a break-in in the apartment. Knowing that they are doctors she found it absolutely abnormal that they left their children alone at home. Associating all of this with her professional experience, which tells her that in 99.99 % of missing children cases, the parents or other family members are involved, she felt it was her duty to inform the police of this.


She did this anonymously because she did not want to be bothered by the media. But she also states that according to what she remembers, when she met with Madeleine's parents, David Payne, who was with them, was wearing a dark polo shirt, blue or black coloured, cream coloured long trousers, of linen or cotton, and dark shoes (sandal/slipper type without a back buckle/catch). In her opinion, this clothing matches perfectly with the clothing the Police described the man (carrying the child) to be wearing at the time. All these coincidences made the witness think that the parents and their friends could possibly be involved in the disappearance of the child.


Certainly DP's hair is nothing like that described by Jane Tanner.

And JT say anything about a polo shirt?

I don't think so ...

[DCI]

Here is what I am referring to:

She says that about two weeks after Madeleine's disappearance, when the police made an appeal for information about a man, carrying a child, who had been seen in the Luz zone, and whose clothing was described, she wrote an anonymous letter to the British police, telling them the following: : regarding the various details she observed during her contact with the McCanns it is her opinion that they could be in some way involved in the disappearance of Madeleine.

She first found them aggressive and their reaction after she showed Madeleine's parents her credentials, also seemed strange to her. Afterwards she was informed that there were no signs of a break-in in the apartment. Knowing that they are doctors she found it absolutely abnormal that they left their children alone at home. Associating all of this with her professional experience, which tells her that in 99.99 % of missing children cases, the parents or other family members are involved, she felt it was her duty to inform the police of this.


She did this anonymously because she did not want to be bothered by the media. But she also states that according to what she remembers, when she met with Madeleine's parents, David Payne, who was with them, was wearing a dark polo shirt, blue or black coloured, cream coloured long trousers, of linen or cotton, and dark shoes (sandal/slipper type without a back buckle/catch). In her opinion, this clothing matches perfectly with the clothing the Police described the man (carrying the child) to be wearing at the time. All these coincidences made the witness think that the parents and their friends could possibly be involved in the disappearance of the child.


Certainly DP's hair is nothing like that described by Jane Tanner.

And JT say anything about a polo shirt?

I don't think so ...

JT never mentioned a polo shirt, neither did Martin Smith, I don't think!

I think she needs a visit to specsavers.
She must have spent an age eyeing up David Payne, can you see a scar he is supposed to have on the left of his face. I can't.

[faithlilly]

Here is what I am referring to:

She says that about two weeks after Madeleine's disappearance, when the police made an appeal for information about a man, carrying a child, who had been seen in the Luz zone, and whose clothing was described, she wrote an anonymous letter to the British police, telling them the following: : regarding the various details she observed during her contact with the McCanns it is her opinion that they could be in some way involved in the disappearance of Madeleine.

She first found them aggressive and their reaction after she showed Madeleine's parents her credentials, also seemed strange to her. Afterwards she was informed that there were no signs of a break-in in the apartment. Knowing that they are doctors she found it absolutely abnormal that they left their children alone at home. Associating all of this with her professional experience, which tells her that in 99.99 % of missing children cases, the parents or other family members are involved, she felt it was her duty to inform the police of this.


She did this anonymously because she did not want to be bothered by the media. But she also states that according to what she remembers, when she met with Madeleine's parents, David Payne, who was with them, was wearing a dark polo shirt, blue or black coloured, cream coloured long trousers, of linen or cotton, and dark shoes (sandal/slipper type without a back buckle/catch). In her opinion, this clothing matches perfectly with the clothing the Police described the man (carrying the child) to be wearing at the time. All these coincidences made the witness think that the parents and their friends could possibly be involved in the disappearance of the child.


Certainly DP's hair is nothing like that described by Jane Tanner.

And JT say anything about a polo shirt?

I don't think so ...

Remember her statements were before the release of the files when there was all sorts of descriptions of Tanner's sighting doing the rounds ( remember the blanket the child was supposed to be wrapped in ).

[ferryman]

Remember her statements were before the release of the files when there was all sorts of descriptions of Tanner's sighting doing the rounds ( remember the blanket the child was supposed to be wrapped in ).

So JT's description doesn't remotely match DP.

I'm glad we agree.

[faithlilly]

So JT's description doesn't remotely match DP.

I'm glad we agree.

We do indeed.

YM unfortunately did not have access to the statements as we do.

[jassi]

Was Smithman's description in the public domain at that time or was that much later ?

What was the appeal that police put out two weeks afterwards about a man carrying a child ?

[ferryman]

We do indeed.

YM unfortunately did not have access to the statements as we do.

So we've slain the canard that JT identified David Payne.

And we've simultaneously exposed the inaccuracy of YM's bogus claim that the man JT saw matches the description of DP ...

Two-out-of-two is (almost!) 100%

[Carana]

I'm sure you're right Carana but that doesn't alter the fact that they are.

BTW can you please point me to where I have exaggerated what YM said ?

I didn't say you had and I wasn't referring to YM.

[kittkat]

I have my own personal view on the case that lead me to think there is more to this than abduction.
That being said, if an abduction were true, the McCanns did right turning a stranger away, credentials or not.  This woman was not brought in by police.  She asserted herself into a situation and asked invasive personal questions.  Their child was taken by a stranger and now another stranger is entering their apartment and poking around asking about the child?   My guard with be way up around any strangers.  How would they know who to trust?  I would not speak with her either.  I am thinking they only answered her initially thinking it was required.   DP was right to warn McCanns.

If this woman wanted to help she could have either offered her services to the police...or merely left a business card with the McCanns saying "call me if you need someone."  The way she walked in an flashed credentials I feel was to lend credibility that she was somehow connected to case and police sent her.   She did not begin introduction with "I was not asked to be here, just offering to help."  She just barged in and IMO let it be assumed she was part of investigation.

[sadie]

I have my own personal view on the case that lead me to think there is more to this than abduction.
That being said, if an abduction were true, the McCanns did right turning a stranger away, credentials or not.  This woman was not brought in by police.  She asserted herself into a situation and asked invasive personal questions.  Their child was taken by a stranger and now another stranger is entering their apartment and poking around asking about the child?   My guard with be way up around any strangers.  How would they know who to trust?  I would not speak with her either.  I am thinking they only answered her initially thinking it was required.   DP was right to warn McCanns.

If this woman wanted to help she could have either offered her services to the police...or merely left a business card with the McCanns saying "call me if you need someone."  The way she walked in an flashed credentials I feel was to lend credibility that she was somehow connected to case and police sent her.   She did not begin introduction with "I was not asked to be here, just offering to help."  She just barged in and IMO let it be assumed she was part of investigation.

Good to see another viewpoint.  Welcome Kittkat

[Brietta]

Good to see another viewpoint.  Welcome Kittkat

I cannot come to terms with the actions of this individual who comes over to me as some sort of 'disaster tourist'.

She seems to have been determined to insert herself into the proceedings in any way she possibly could ... that we hear no more of her seems to show her assistance was not required however much she pushed herself forward.

 -SNIP - - Meanwhile, she heard comments next to the complex reception that the British Consul was coming to the site and she decided to wait for this person in order to offer her help.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm

 

[Eleanor]

Some people simply do the wrong thing for the right reasons.  But I have to say that I wasn't wild about the anonymous letter.  That could have been the right thing for the wrong reasons.

[Carana]

Some people simply do the wrong thing for the right reasons.  But I have to say that I wasn't wild about the anonymous letter.  That could have been the right thing for the wrong reasons.

I have no particular opinion. She may just have reacted on reflex and somehow thought that she could be of use. Her prior experience may have led her to assume that the family/friends may have been involved and wanted to share that with the police. I doubt that any modern police force would not have thought of that possibility without her intervention, but anyway.

Someone by the name of Yvonne Martin did sign the McCanns' petition with the following remark:

Name: Yvonne Martin on Nov 2, 2010
Comments: Madeleine has my full support.