Ccat: Who does that pile of folders/ papers belong to?

[Mr Gray]

You are, sir, kicking against an open door that has no bias. I just find the antics of the "supporters" rather amusing when it comes to "The Dogs". My partner refers to my visits here as my "Bishop of Buckingham moments". I am not sure precisely what it means but nonetheless my partner chuckles when saying it so I presume it is amusing .

and you make no sense and add nothing to the debate... I am not surprised your partner laughs at you

[Alice Purjorick]

and you make no sense and add nothing to the debate... I am not surprised your partner laughs at you

How unkind sir; but your idea that a dog "alerting" has no meaning or value is preposterous considering world wide experts disagree with you.
Tell me why should I believe the opinion of a faceless internet jockey, with too much time to spare, over the opinion of a real expert?

[Mr Gray]

How unkind sir; but your idea that a dog "alerting" has no meaning or value is preposterous considering world wide experts disagree with you.
Tell me why should I believe the opinion of a faceless internet jockey, with too much time to spare, over the opinion of a real expert?

It is not my opinion it's Grimes

[slartibartfast]

It is not my opinion it's Grimes

No it isn't.

[Mr Gray]

No it isn't.

So what value do the alerts have...what do they tell us

[Alice Purjorick]

So what value do the alerts have...what do they tell us

That the dog has found a scent it has been trained to find and that operator intervention is now required to proceed further.

[Brietta]

That the dog has found a scent it has been trained to find and that operator intervention is now required to proceed further.

 ... that there was 'operator intervention' is incontrovertible ~ unless cuddle cat walked from the floor where Eddie threw him and hid himself in the cupboard hoping to continue the game.                 

[ferryman]

... that there was 'operator intervention' is incontrovertible ~ unless cuddle cat walked from the floor where Eddie threw him and hid himself in the cupboard hoping to continue the game.               

Assuming Grime directed operations, he either will have put the toy in the cupboard or directed someone else to do so.

Why?

I am inclined to think he simply didn't want a repeat of the fiasco of Eddie playing with it -- and rather made a "virtue" out of an embarrassment by holding the toy up as if some sort of trophy after Eddie had barked all around the cupboard ....

[Montclair]

Quite simply, I do not believe Eddie alerted to cadaver odour on the clothes in the gymnasium.  How do you explain that he did not alert to these items in the villa.  To Dr Amaral's consternation neither did he alert to the same items in the decontaminated garage.
If he alerted to cadaver odour in the gymnasium and he had not alerted on two previous inspections it stands to reason the clothes became contaminated between their last port of call ~ the decontaminated garage ~ and their next.
The question then arises ~ how exactly did that tranference occur ~ and that might be worth pondering.

I'm off, this is a ridiculous time to be up at ... sleep tight (unless you're working a nightshift)

I believe that the clothes were packed and taken away before Eddie was brought in. The clothes were not laid out in the garage. The English translation which states that "the clothes were placed on the ground" is taken from an incorrect translation in the French edition of the book. In the original edition in Portuguese, it is said that the "clothes were to be placed" not "were placed".

[Mr Gray]

That the dog has found a scent it has been trained to find and that operator intervention is now required to proceed further.

That's right...to look for evidence in the spot alerted to. No evidence found....so in this case the alert is of no use ..value...whatever

[Brietta]

I believe that the clothes were packed and taken away before Eddie was brought in. The clothes were not laid out in the garage. The English translation which states that "the clothes were placed on the ground" is taken from an incorrect translation in the French edition of the book. In the original edition in Portuguese, it is said that the "clothes were to be placed" not "were placed".

In the video we saw clothes lying on beds and over chairs; we also saw boxes; later we viewed labels on the boxes stating which rooms in the villa the clothes had been taken from.  IMO the clothes were left out for the benefit of the VRD and if they had been alerted to they would have been bagged in situ.
Cadaver scent as we now know is highly transferrable and the VRD would have been able to alert to where they had been stored in the villa even if they had been moved.

You see this is all guess work re the forensically cleaned garage; there is nothing in the files about the clothes being taken to the garage that I can see and there is no way of knowing exactly what happened there because there is no video selectively edited or otherwise.

As for being ‘too dirty’ what exactly is too dirty for a cadaver dog? 

If it was necessary to have a search warrant to conduct these searches, wouldn’t it be usual to have someone from the defence team in attendance?  Just a thought.

[Brietta]

Assuming Grime directed operations, he either will have put the toy in the cupboard or directed someone else to do so.

Why?

I am inclined to think he simply didn't want a repeat of the fiasco of Eddie playing with it -- and rather made a "virtue" out of an embarrassment by holding the toy up as if some sort of trophy after Eddie had barked all around the cupboard ....

Perhaps he only said something like ‘put that toy out of sight’ and someone shoved it in the cupboard, so the jury is out on whether he knew it was there or not.

I think he believed the scent cone causing the alert had come from CC via the door which had been left ajar; but I think he may also  have seized on it as you say to avoid more embarrassment.

Eddie had played with CC and I have no doubt he would have been able to recognise CC’s scent; but I have no doubt either that his interest was in whatever was on top of the sideboard; could even have been blood from a paper cut, but on this occasion Keela was conspicuous by her absence, certainly in the video record.

With the door being ajar I think Eddie would have alerted at the gaps in the middle and the bottom, I don't think he would have jumped to smell the items on the top unless the scent was coming from there.

[Alice Purjorick]

That's right...to look for evidence in the spot alerted to. No evidence found....so in this case the alert is of no use ..value...whatever

As the dogs sense of smell is so acute it can alert to something we cannot find. That does not mean it does not exist.
To say something is worthless in this instance is rather fatuous and biased. Whilst it may not be useful in court it helps build up a picture for the investigators; note in this instance the investigation is led by an officer of the court not the bogeyman.

[colombosstogey]

Nothing changes still on about the useless dogs lol.....this case is never going to  be solved. Life has moved on sadly.

[Brietta]

Nothing changes still on about the useless dogs lol.....this case is never going to  be solved. Life has moved on sadly.

I don’t think the dogs were particularly useless; I think they just could not find what was not there to be found in the first place; unfortunately a huge belief system has been built round what they singularly did not find which has persisted for nearly seven years now. 

Life has moved on for most of us and the mere fact that official resources have now been directed at investigating Madeleine’s case gives it the best chance it has ever had of being solved; the PJ stopped looking for her in the days after her disappearance because they had decided she was dead.