Are miscarriages of justice in Portugal as rare as hens teeth?

[Alfred R Jones]

You are all wrong (according to a handful of people).

- There are no miscarriages of justice in Portugal.

- There is no child abuse or major crime of any kind unless it involves foreigners.

- Amaral donated all his earnings from the "Maddie" case to charity.

- The PJ is in the top category of the most efficient police forces in the world.

yes, and all Portuguese pigs are born with wings and fly from cloud to cloud rootling for unicorn eggs.

[Alice Purjorick]

http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2010/eur/154445.htm#
http://www.amnestyusa.org/research/reports/annual-report-portugal-2013.

Us State Dept Report 2010/2011 and Amnesty International 2013 report.

[Mr Gray]

http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2010/eur/154445.htm#
http://www.amnestyusa.org/research/reports/annual-report-portugal-2013.

Us State Dept Report 2010/2011 and Amnesty International 2013 report.

This is very damning from the US report..


In its 2009 report the CPT noted that few detained persons had an effective right of access to legal counsel during police custody. While police registers indicated that detainees were informed of their right to an attorney, a considerable number of detained persons complained that, in fact, they had not been informed of their rights. In some police stations there was a "striking discrepancy" between the number of detainees who were recorded as having been informed of their rights and the number who actually exercised their rights.

Lengthy pretrial detention remained a problem. As of October 15, 2,289 individuals (20 percent of the prison population) were in preventive detention, an increase from the previous year. The average detention time was eight months; approximately 20 percent of preventive detainees spent more than one year in incarceration. Lengthy pretrial detention is usually due to lengthy investigations and legal procedures, judicial inefficiency, or staff shortages. If a detainee is convicted, pretrial detention counts against a prison sentence. If found innocent, a detainee has the right to request compensation.


So few suspects have access to legal advice during custody...no wonder the police get away with beating suspects

[Montclair]

This is very damning from the US report..


In its 2009 report the CPT noted that few detained persons had an effective right of access to legal counsel during police custody. While police registers indicated that detainees were informed of their right to an attorney, a considerable number of detained persons complained that, in fact, they had not been informed of their rights. In some police stations there was a "striking discrepancy" between the number of detainees who were recorded as having been informed of their rights and the number who actually exercised their rights.

Lengthy pretrial detention remained a problem. As of October 15, 2,289 individuals (20 percent of the prison population) were in preventive detention, an increase from the previous year. The average detention time was eight months; approximately 20 percent of preventive detainees spent more than one year in incarceration. Lengthy pretrial detention is usually due to lengthy investigations and legal procedures, judicial inefficiency, or staff shortages. If a detainee is convicted, pretrial detention counts against a prison sentence. If found innocent, a detainee has the right to request compensation.


So few suspects have access to legal advice during custody...no wonder the police get away with beating suspects

And where does it say that these detainees were alll beaten up?

[Mr Gray]

And where does it say that these detainees were alll beaten up?

So few detainees had access to a solicitor...this may seem normal to you but is totally unacceptable in a civilised country

[Alfred R Jones]

And where does it say that these detainees were alll beaten up?

Does a legal system where a considerable number of detainees are denied legal counsel lead to greater or fewer miscarriages of justice in your view, or do you think it doesn't really make any difference either way?

[Eleanor]

And where does it say that these detainees were alll beaten up?

Okay.  Only a few.

[Alice Purjorick]

Of course it would be interesting to compare the Portuguese performance against that of the USA.
Before your very eyes in St Louis is an example of how much better the Americans are.

[sadie]

Okay.  Only a few.

How many people who were beaten up, would dare to put their heads above the parapet to tell the world?


 Also, generally, we dont have access to PT cases, do we?   So how many is only a few? 

[Mr Gray]

Of course it would be interesting to compare the Portuguese performance against that of the USA.
Before your very eyes in St Louis is an example of how much better the Americans are.

anything to deflect away from the deficiencies in the Portuguese legal system.....which is what this board is concerned with

[Alfred R Jones]

Of course it would be interesting to compare the Portuguese performance against that of the USA.
Before your very eyes in St Louis is an example of how much better the Americans are.

Whether or not the USA justice system is better or worse than the PT justice system is of absolutely no relevance to the question of whether or not miscarriages of justice ever occur in Portugal.  We have been told by Montclair that they NEVER occur, which would seem to put Portugal at the very top of the justice league table.  Is that really where it is, d'you think?

[Alfred R Jones]

We have been told by Montclair that (unlike for example the UK and the US) miscarriages of justice NEVER occur in Portugal, which would seem to put Portugal at the very top of the justice league table.  Is that really where it is, d'you think?

[Alice Purjorick]

Now let me ponder a while.......

Why has no one found a credible report of miscarriage of justice in Portugal?

One of two reasons spring to mind.

There are none...Montclair.

ALL of them are covered up so successfully that even Amnesty International has only had a sniff of three dubious unproven ones in Portugal over the last 20 years...McCann supporters.

I find both theories equally improbable.
US State Department reports, links as provided (trolled?), suggest the world is much of a muchness in that no one has a squeaky clean record vis a vis human rights violations. None is free from fault but some are worse than others.

[Alice Purjorick]

We have been told by Montclair that (unlike for example the UK and the US) miscarriages of justice NEVER occur in Portugal, which would seem to put Portugal at the very top of the justice league table.  Is that really where it is, d'you think?

Come now sir were there a league table as you postulate it would there in black and white for all to see and no need for debate.
I would hazard a guess that Portugal is not that different from other places in Europe.

[Mr Gray]

Come now sir were there a league table as you postulate it would there in black and white for all to see and no need for debate.
I would hazard a guess that Portugal is not that different from other places in Europe.

The Uk is in Europe and we have miscarriages of justice...why are there none in Portugal is the question you wish to avoid