Smithman was carrying a child with long sleeved pyjamas.

[John]

I always thought that 'pinky area' was where the artist had deliberately blanked out that part of the child's body which Jane Tanner did not see and so could not give a description for the artist to reproduce.

Fair enough but why did Tanner claim the pyjama trousers had turn-ups or frilly bottoms when they clearly didn't?



(left) Artists sketch based on Jane Tanner's sighting.  (right) Clothing worn by tourists child.

[John]

But Sadie the girl whom JT saw cannot possibly be the missing girl.
JT definitely saw the pyjama legs extending well below the knees.
The pyjamas the missing girl was wearing had short legs which would have ended above the knees in the carrying position JT described.
The length of the pyjama legs in the JT sighting IMO proves that the girl JT saw was not the missing girl.

And the length of the pyjama arms in the Smith sighting IMO proves that was not the missing girl either.
KM statement 4 May 2007: "short-sleeved top"
AS statement 26 May 2007: "top with long sleeves"

Good post pegasus. 

[pathfinder73]

Fair enough but why did Tanner claim the pyjama trousers had turn-ups or frilly bottoms when they clearly didn't?



(left) Artists sketch based on Jane Tanner's sighting.  (right) Clothing worn by tourists child.

The orange bottoms look like turn ups - Tanner is easily influenced by others. He morphed into George Harrison when she didn't see his face. She only saw the child for seconds walking past and her first statement said older than a baby so hardly Madeleine at nearly 4 and the way he was carrying the child. Madeleine was spotted being carried with a long sleeved top over her pyjamas. I have no doubt about it. Summers was correct you would have to be living on Mars not to have heard of Madeleine McCann over the last 7 years and still Smithman hasn't cleared himself. That man is guilty!

[pegasus]

The orange bottoms look like turn ups - Tanner is easily influenced by others. He morphed into George Harrison when she didn't see his face. She only saw the child for seconds walking past and her first statement said older than a baby so hardly Madeleine at nearly 4 and the way he was carrying the child. Madeleine was spotted being carried with a long sleeved top over her pyjamas. I have no doubt about it. Summers was correct you would have to be living on Mars not to have heard of Madeleine McCann over the last 7 years and still Smithman hasn't cleared himself. That man is guilty!

Yes those bands look like turn-ups.
Turn-ups on the pyjamas are mentioned 8 times in JT's rog interview, for example:
"... or turn-up, as I thought it was"
It is clear when one looks at this phrase carefully, that JT thought they were most likely turn-ups, but was not completely sure, and it was the artist and other persons who chose to go with the frill alternative.
As we now know (years later), it is likely she saw the English tourist identified by SY, and they were actually bands at the end of the pyjama legs, which did indeed look like turn-ups just as JT said.

[pegasus]

Am I right about these two points?
1. The mainstream "live abduction" theories have the child seen by the Smiths = the missing child.
2. The mainstream "concealment theories" have the child seen by the Smiths = the missing child.

If so, it is astounding that two opposite theories both share exactly the same difficulty - the long sleeves - and to get around this difficulty, both theories have to suppose that the carrier for some bizarre reason chose to put onto a child a long-sleeved top.

[Anna]

Am I right about these two points?
1. The mainstream "live abduction" theories have the child seen by the Smiths = the missing child.
2. The mainstream "concealment theories" have the child seen by the Smiths = the missing child.

If so, it is astounding that two opposite theories both share exactly the same difficulty - the long sleeves - and to get around this difficulty, both theories have to suppose that the carrier for some bizarre reason chose to put onto a child a long-sleeved top.

I believe that same theory thinks that she had been dead for hours. We are talking about a child, so she wouldnt look limp, as described IIRC.
Another thing was that they were accused of changing her pyjama top to long sleeves, to throw us off track,
but then Kate was accused of lying when she said that the sleeves were short on JT sighting and Smith family.......Slip of the tongue I expect, since she knew what her child was really wearing.

[pegasus]

I believe that same theory thinks that she had been dead for hours. We are talking about a child, so she wouldnt look limp, as described IIRC.
Another thing was that they were accused of changing her pyjama top to long sleeves, to throw us off track,
but then Kate was accused of lying when she said that the sleeves were short on JT sighting and Smith family.......Slip of the tongue I expect, since she knew what her child was really wearing.

Yes I see your points.
The "Smithman = abductor" and the "Smithman = concealer" theories (so completely opposite to each other) have in common that they both need to devise some explanation for how A.S. saw long sleeves.
 

[Anna]

Am I right about these two points?
1. The mainstream "live abduction" theories have the child seen by the Smiths = the missing child.
2. The mainstream "concealment theories" have the child seen by the Smiths = the missing child.

If so, it is astounding that two opposite theories both share exactly the same difficulty - the long sleeves - and to get around this difficulty, both theories have to suppose that the carrier for some bizarre reason chose to put onto a child a long-sleeved top.

Absolutely correct, but not sure about the pyjamas riding up. It's something a parent does automatically......Pull down trousers etc to keep out the cold and bottoms that wide could easily have her bent knees inside, but only my opinion.

[Anna]

Yes I see your points.
The "Smithman = abductor" and the "Smithman = concealer" theories (so completely opposite to each other) have in common that they both need to devise some explanation for how A.S. saw long sleeves.

Easy explanation ................Her disappearance had nothing to do with either Smithman or crecheman.I do believe JT may possibly have seen the real one!
What did happen to her is a mystery we can only hope SC can solve

[pathfinder73]

Am I right about these two points?
1. The mainstream "live abduction" theories have the child seen by the Smiths = the missing child.
2. The mainstream "concealment theories" have the child seen by the Smiths = the missing child.

If so, it is astounding that two opposite theories both share exactly the same difficulty - the long sleeves - and to get around this difficulty, both theories have to suppose that the carrier for some bizarre reason chose to put onto a child a long-sleeved top.

It's not difficult to disguise a missing child in long sleeves. There's no way Smithman walked through the streets thinking he wouldn't be seen. You can't positively prove it was the missing child - her face couldn't be seen against his shoulder and the short sleeved description doesn't match. Everything else matches to being her. That man has never come forward to clear himself. The long sleeved top would be discarded at her destination so nothing could connect it to her. So the long sleeved top probably went in a bin and ended up at the tip.

[pegasus]

Absolutely correct, but not sure about the pyjamas riding up. It's something a parent does automatically......Pull down trousers etc to keep out the cold and bottoms that wide could easily have her bent knees inside, but only my opinion.

I still think the eyore legs (short, wide for entire length, and without elasticated band at the base) would be above knees in that carrying position.
Back to the smith sighting and the long sleeves, SY must have noticed this difficulty, I wonder what they think of it.

[pegasus]

Easy explanation ................Her disappearance had nothing to do with either Smithman or crecheman.I do believe JT may possibly have seen the real one!
What did happen to her is a mystery we can only hope SC can solve

Just my opinion - the disappearance had nothing to do with Smithman nor JTman.
Carrying-in-arms-through-the-streets is not involved in the case at all JIMO.

[Anna]

I still think the eyore legs (short, wide for entire length, and without elasticated band at the base) would be above knees in that carrying position.
Back to the smith sighting and the long sleeves, SY must have noticed this difficulty, I wonder what they think of it.

1.They probably think the witness was mistaken, re:-sleeves. I doubt they think that there was a pyjama changer about.
2.They want to find the Dad that the Smith family saw, who ever he was.

I just checked and I was wrong about the Smith family saying she was limp, that was JT's  sighting. Sorry.
She wouldnt lay naturally against her father though.....Would she, if she had been deceased for hours?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A bit gruesome...sorry, but had to explain the implications of carrying a child who had deceased hours earlier.

[pegasus]

It's not difficult to disguise a missing child in long sleeves. There's no way Smithman walked through the streets thinking he wouldn't be seen. You can't positively prove it was the missing child - her face couldn't be seen against his shoulder and the short sleeved description doesn't match. Everything else matches to being her. That man has never come forward to clear himself. The long sleeved top would be discarded at her destination so nothing could connect it to her. So the long sleeved top probably went in a bin and ended up at the tip.

It would not be a very cunning disguise.
 

[Anna]

In JT statement she doesnt mention sleeves(hope I got that right) so it might have been short sleeves on that sighting,we dont know.
I think Gerry and Kate are the ones being accused of pyjama games, but you could be right Sadie, if they were changed.
With light coloured sleeves and light arms and hands, I dont know how they could distinquish between long and short, in bad lighting