Was the slamming door connected to an escape via bedroom patio door?

[xtina]

This has always bothered me .......because i could never understand how it bothered k mcc that it was not how she left it when they left the apartment ....when others had checked before she did.....[unless there had been no other checks]

The door slammed shut when she closed it to a certain angle...shown on the link below or 25 mins into it.

http://www.richplanet.net/starship_main.php?ref=185&part=1

If that was the case ...why didn't it slam shut when she entered the apartment ......

1 have tested this....when by back door is open my kitchen door stays open ....if the font door opens  ...the kitchen door slams shut....no matter what angle at ...[wide open or slightly

but it stays open ...no matter how strong the breeze or wind ...if the front door is shut

So why did this not happen as she entered.....plus the wind was not reported as stron that night [records from faro airport] ....

sorry mods if this should not have been in a new thread ..but i think it is an important point

[sadie]

This has always bothered me .......because i could never understand how it bothered k mcc that it was not how she left it when they left the apartment ....when others had checked before she did.....[unless there had been no other checks]

The door slammed shut when she closed it to a certain angle...shown on the link below or 25 mins into it.

http://www.richplanet.net/starship_main.php?ref=185&part=1

If that was the case ...why didn't it slam shut when she entered the apartment ......

1 have tested this....when by back door is open my kitchen door stays open ....if the font door opens  ...the kitchen door slams shut....no matter what angle at ...[wide open or slightly

but it stays open ...no matter how strong the breeze or wind ...if the front door is shut

So why did this not happen as she entered.....plus the wind was not reported as stron that night [records from faro airport] ....

sorry mods if this should not have been in a new thread ..but i think it is an important point

I am glad that you have started a new thread Xtina, cos I answered this on possibly the wrong thread in response to Wspams questions about it

Sadie

« on: August 25, 2014, 12:44:18 PM »
Quote from: Wonderfulspam on August 25, 2014, 11:52:14 AM

Kates account of the winds which waited has been accepted without question by SY.

SY believe unreservedly that the winds did happen to blow with the force required to slam the door shut at the precise moment Kate went to pull it to, and that the wind then paused, whilst Kate tried to work out if some flat bedclothes were Madeleine, only blowing with the force required to flap the curtains once Kate had returned from her bedroom, them curtains informing her in the process that 'they' had taken her, y'know.

It was a GUSTY night Wspam with GUSTS up to 20mph

We do not know what windows The Mccanns had left open in the sitting room, or even if they had left the patio doors slightly ajar in their bedroom.  With a southerly aspect, their bedroom could have become very hot, with a residual heat which made sleeping difficult.

To remind you, the sitting room windows on the side were not at ground level, but at more or less first floor level, so not a worry if left open.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/zzrearaptd.jpg


To reach their bedroom patio windows an intruder had to go up the outdoor stairs that we have seen Gerry descending from in photos.  They were visible to the tapas group, altho only illuminated at the bottom part as John pointed out and again a little at the top en route to the bedroom patio window ..I think a bush obscured their view of the bedroom patio doors, so possibly they were actually hidden from the tapas group.  The bedroom patio doors were not illuminated by the close street lamp, they were in the shadow.


I have wondered why there was no interest in these bedroom patio windows


On the image above you will see:

1)   Just how high the sitting room window was, (above the cop) so it should have been safe to have been  left open.
2)   The steps up, which lead to both patio doors but are not lit apprecuiably for the main part
3)   The round bush which probably might have hidden from the Tapas group, anyone using the bedroom patio doors.


With an open sitting room window or a slightly open bedroom patio door, there would have been opportunity for a through draught.  We dont know if either of these window/ doors was open.   The wind must have been coming from roughly the North.   

If either was open, as Kate partially closed the door, a larger door surface area presented itself to the sudden northerly gust /draft and a bigger force was produced on the door because of that.  Hence the way that a through draft /gust slammed the door shut.


I am not sure that i have explained that very well[/size].

I would like to add, that if the bedroom door was virtually open against the side wall when Kate arrived, with its end (door thickness only) facing the bedroom window then there would be NO apprecialble surface for any gust to catch on, and also any forces would be pushing directly against the hinge rather than producing a turning moment.   And so it would not have closed.


As the door was closed by Kate and presented a much bigger face to the wind, the gust took it.


Hope this explains it.  Maybe some one with the necessary understanding and better English skills than mine could explain it more clearly.

[Brietta]

I am glad that you have started a new thread Xtina, cos I answered this on possibly the wrong thread in response to Wspams questions about it

Sadie
It was a GUSTY night Wspam with GUSTS up to 20mph

We do not know what windows The Mccanns had left open in the sitting room, or even if they had left the patio doors slightly ajar in their bedroom.  With a southerly aspect, their bedroom could have become very hot, with a residual heat which made sleeping difficult.

To remind you, the sitting room windows on the side were not at ground level, but at more or less first floor level, so not a worry if left open.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/zzrearaptd.jpg


To reach their bedroom patio windows an intruder had to go up the outdoor stairs that we have seen Gerry descending from in photos.  They were visible to the tapas group, altho only illuminated at the bottom part as John pointed out and again a little at the top en route to the bedroom patio window ..I think a bush obscured their view of the bedroom patio doors, so possibly they were actually hidden from the tapas group.  The bedroom patio doors were not illuminated by the close street lamp, they were in the shadow.


I have wondered why there was no interest in these bedroom patio windows


On the image above you will see:

1)   Just how high the sitting room window was, (above the cop) so it should have been safe to have been  left open.
2)   The steps up, which lead to both patio doors but are not lit apprecuiably for the main part
3)   The round bush which probably might have hidden from the Tapas group, anyone using the bedroom patio doors.


With an open sitting room window or a slightly open bedroom patio door, there would have been opportunity for a through draught.  We dont know if either of these window/ doors was open.   The wind must have been coming from roughly the North.   

If either was open, as Kate partially closed the door, a larger door surface area presented itself to the sudden northerly gust /draft and a bigger force was produced on the door because of that.  Hence the way that a through draft /gust slammed the door shut.


I am not sure that i have explained that very well[/size].

I would like to add, that if the bedroom door was virtually open against the side wall when Kate arrived, with its end (door thickness only) facing the bedroom window then there would be NO apprecialble surface for any gust to catch on, and also any forces would be pushing directly against the hinge rather than producing a turning moment.   And so it would not have closed.


As the door was closed by Kate and presented a much bigger face to the wind, the gust took it.


Hope this explains it.  Maybe some one with the necessary understanding and better English skills than mine could explain it more clearly.

Sadie, your explanation is concise and crystal clear and in my opinion demonstrates exactly what happened.

[Anna]

Yes I fully understand, because I had the same problem with my kitchen door....OK when fully opened or, closed of course, but otherwise slammed when window or outer door were open. We had the door removed, but then the lounge door slammed, which we now leave fully open and wedged.

[Alice Purjorick]

Oh mercy me my dears; the only practical way to resolve this is to recreate the exact conditions in a controlled environment.
Unfortunately I fear determining the weather conditions and wind velocities will be the easy part.
Reconstructing the angles at which the doors reposed and so on will depend on the memories of those involved which as is acknowledged by "debunker" in the link provided by Wonderfulspam is not to be relied upon "Memory is constructive, not linear and photographic".. And of course reconstructions are not our long suit. So that leaves us with "well it happened because Kate said so" ; "it happened because it did"
or just maybe Wonderfulspam has a point.

[sadie]

Oh mercy me my dears; the only practical way to resolve this is to recreate the exact conditions in a controlled environment.
Unfortunately I fear determining the weather conditions and wind velocities will be the easy part.
Reconstructing the angles at which the doors reposed and so on will depend on the memories of those involved which as is acknowledged by "debunker" in the link provided by Wonderfulspam is not to be relied upon "Memory is constructive, not linear and photographic".. And of course reconstructions are not our long suit. So that leaves us with "well it happened because Kate said so" ; "it happened because it did"
or just maybe Wonderfulspam has a point.

Well with blustery conditions, wind directions might vary by a few degrees.  Would be difficult, if not impossible, to reconstruct such conditions.

As I have yet to find anything that Kate has not been honest about, I am happy to accept her description.

Some people make a profession out of disbelieving EVERYTHING the Mccanns and Tapas group state.  you are not one of those, are you AP ?

[xtina]

Yes I fully understand, because I had the same problem with my kitchen door....OK when fully opened or, closed of course, but otherwise slammed when window or outer door were open. We had the door removed, but then the lounge door slammed, which we now leave fully open and wedged.

exactly........that is what i do wedge it open... [moderated] ..it would have slammed the minute she opened the door....not how she described it on the video....impossible IMO

[sadie]

exactly........that is what i do wedge it open... [moderated] ..it would have slammed the minute she opened the door....not how she described it on the video....impossible IMO

Xtina, if you are completely non technical and non logical and cant understand my analysis to you, then "follow that bus".


It certianly wont get you there, but it will keep you occupied.

[xtina]

Well with blustery conditions, wind directions might vary by a few degrees.  Would be difficult, if not impossible, to reconstruct such conditions.

As I have yet to find anything that Kate has not been honest about, I am happy to accept her description.

Some people make a profession out of disbelieving EVERYTHING the Mccanns and Tapas group state.  you are not one of those, are you AP ?

ok......you believe everything k mcc says.............that is why you are in the position you are in now ... [moderated] ...and u believe them...............and as for

Xtina, if you are completely non technical and non logical and cant understand my analysis to you, then "follow that bus".


It certianly wont get you there, but it will keep you occupied.





why will you be on the bus sadie

[Brietta]

ok......you believe everything k mcc says.............that is why you are in the position you are in now ... [moderated] ...and u believe them...............and as for

Xtina, if you are completely non technical and non logical and cant understand my analysis to you, then "follow that bus".


It certianly wont get you there, but it will keep you occupied.

It never ceases to amaze the petty points latched onto by those who have determined to find fault with every utterance, every move or even the clothing worn by their chosen patsies. 

With reference to Dr Kate McCann and the ‘slamming door’

If the door did not slam shut … so what?

If the door did slam shut ... so what?

The matter of utmost importance here is that Madeleine was missing.

[faithlilly]

It never ceases to amaze the petty points latched onto by those who have determined to find fault with every utterance, every move or even the clothing worn by their chosen patsies. 

With reference to Dr Kate McCann and the ‘slamming door’

If the door did not slam shut … so what?

If the door did slam shut ... so what?

The matter of utmost importance here is that Madeleine was missing.

Yes Brietta it was so unimportant that Kate herself forgot to mention it in her first statement.

Still at least she remembered it for the 10th of May timeline, just in time to explain why Oldfield didn't see the window and shutters open when he did his 9.30 check eh !

[Alice Purjorick]

Well with blustery conditions, wind directions might vary by a few degrees.  Would be difficult, if not impossible, to reconstruct such conditions.

As I have yet to find anything that Kate has not been honest about, I am happy to accept her description.

Some people make a profession out of disbelieving EVERYTHING the Mccanns and Tapas group state.  you are not one of those, are you AP ?

There are many things in this case about which I have had reservations right from the day I first saw the McCanns on telly.
The same kind of feelings I had about decade earlier watching Tracie Andrews. Like something here appears not to be quite kosher. I have however no desire to lob brickbats at Drs McCann just for the sake of it. They are hostages to their own fortune, that is their doing no one elses and playing the victim card palls after a while. On this forum we are here to debate for a bit of "sport" nothing more nothing less. We can do little if anything that will change events one iota. There are however those on here who believe that "skeptics" are a sort of untermenschen; now that I do find disturbing.

[slartibartfast]

It never ceases to amaze the petty points latched onto by those who have determined to find fault with every utterance, every move or even the clothing worn by their chosen patsies. 

With reference to Dr Kate McCann and the ‘slamming door’

If the door did not slam shut … so what?

If the door did slam shut ... so what?

The matter of utmost importance here is that Madeleine was missing.

Why Dr and not just Kate?

[sadie]

Why Dr and not just Kate?

Perhaps you haven't noticed but Alice P has given the Mccanns the courtesy of Drs.


Why pick on Brietta?

[pathfinder73]

It never ceases to amaze the petty points latched onto by those who have determined to find fault with every utterance, every move or even the clothing worn by their chosen patsies. 

With reference to Dr Kate McCann and the ‘slamming door’

If the door did not slam shut … so what?

If the door did slam shut ... so what?

The matter of utmost importance here is that Madeleine was missing.

You never cease to amaze either. Detectives are very interested in all these anomalies. Moving doors, doors slamming shut, curtains whooshing open, windows opening but not being used. Tanner not being seen. Gerry seeing Madeleine on top of the covers. Kate seeing her under the covers. Is this poltergeist IV.