What does Grime mean by "No evidential reliability"

[Mr Gray]

It simply means that the dog alerts, although evidence in their own right, are not reliable as an indicator that cadaver scent was found unless corroborated by other evidence such as blood or DNA etc...

Or to put it another way, had Madeleine's blood been found behind the sofa in the apartment and/or on the rear floor of the hire car then that evidence combined with the dogs alerts becomes reliable.

Who 'cleared' them?

Agreed john..so without corroboration they are unreliable

[Mr Gray]

Is this not what Martin Grime said:-
"It is my view that it is possible that the EVRD is alerting to 'a cadaver scent'
contaminant. No evidential or intelligence reliability can be made from this
alert unless it can be confirmed with corroborating evidence".
Should we not be discussing what Mr Grime's report quotes he said rather than a contrived thread title ?.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

So Grime said that it is possible the dog was alerting to cadaver scent...only possible....not a confirmation

[Brietta]

I think you are mistaken. If a dead body was inside that flat then it was hidden away from any possible prying eyes. Eddie sniffed the wardrobe and then barked. It's on film as to what actually happened!

I keep telling you - I have watched the video - now for your statement to bear scrutiny you will have to tell me exactly how it was possible to hide a dead body from the prying eyes of the GNR officers, the GNR dogs, all the people who searched for Madeleine and not least her parents, in the confines of an open plan holiday flat.

[Montclair]

It simply means that the dog alerts, although evidence in their own right, are not reliable as an indicator that cadaver scent was found unless corroborated by other evidence such as blood or DNA etc...

Or to put it another way, had Madeleine's blood been found behind the sofa in the apartment and/or on the rear floor of the hire car then that evidence combined with the dogs alerts becomes reliable.

Who 'cleared' them?

In the Prout case no forensic evidence was found where the cadaver scent was indicated by the dog but the dog's indication was considered essential to their investigation. Corroborating evidence does not have to be forensic, the evidence can be that someone is missing and lived in that house and no one had ever died there.

[Mr Gray]

In the Prout case no forensic evidence was found where the cadaver scent was indicated by the dog but the dog's indication was considered essential to their investigation. Corroborating evidence does not have to be forensic, the evidence can be that someone is missing and lived in that house and no one had ever died there.

so what does no evidential reliability mean

[stephen25000]

Some people just don't seem to understand that the McCanns were cleared of their suspect status many years ago and therefore have no need to have the forensic evidence re-examined.

The case was shelved.

Effectively, so was their arguido status, which of course can be reactivated for up to 20 years after the event.

[stephen25000]

no..they mean absolutely nothing...that's my opinion and as Redwood says Maddie may still be alive...how can they mean anything

Redwood also admits Madeleine may have died in the apartment.

[Mr Gray]

Redwood also admits Madeleine may have died in the apartment.

That's right...nothing certain....the alerts prove nothing

[stephen25000]

That's right...nothing certain....the alerts prove nothing

On that I agree with you totally.

Redwood and his team  have found nothing.

[pathfinder73]

I keep telling you - I have watched the video - now for your statement to bear scrutiny you will have to tell me exactly how it was possible to hide a dead body from the prying eyes of the GNR officers, the GNR dogs, all the people who searched for Madeleine and not least her parents, in the confines of an open plan holiday flat.

Madeleine would have been moved out before the alarm was raised so I don't understand your point.

[Brietta]

Madeleine would have been moved out before the alarm was raised so I don't understand your point.

When exactly was Madeleine moved and by whom?

[ferryman]

Where did I mention wardrobe?

That was just a myth as illustrated by Dr Amaral when he pointed out the shelf in the wardrobe Eddie had alerted to in his documentary so it became common currency that was where Madeleine had been hidden. 

Eddie alerted in the corner … not the wardrobe.

If you read what Martin Grime says very carefully he asserts the alert was triggered by the build up of scent in that corner emanating from a physical source. 

“If there isn't a scent source in here, i.e. a physical article where the scent is emitting from, any scent residue will collect in a particular place due to the air movement of the flat, the apartment and what I would say in this case is that there is enough scent in that area there for him to give me a bark indication but the source may not be in that cupboard, the source may well be in this room somewhere else but the air is actually pushing into that corner.”

Martin Grime mentions a source enabling the accumulation of a scent ... so where is that source?

That is certainly in line with what I have said about cadaver dogs alerting some distance from the cadaver. 
In other words they scented the body or parts of a body some distance from the location.

Human decomposition = scent, which may or may not be discernible to the human nose = dog alert = finding source of alert even if some distance away = evidence.

Using that example … a valid one according to what Martin Grime has stated … to what did Eddie alert because for sure it wasn’t human detritus or anything which is evidential.

Annie, a while back, made a quite brilliant find of all the people (besides Paul Gordon's shaving cut) who did, or might have, bled in apartment 5a.

[pathfinder73]

Annie, a while back, made a quite brilliant find of all the people (besides Paul Gordon's shaving cut) who did, or might have, bled in apartment 5a.

Eddie was no amateur and no blood on the alerted clothes.

[Brietta]

Eddie was no amateur and no blood on the alerted clothes.

Eddie was a dog ... no more no less ... that is another video we have all watched avidly.

Any idea why Sean was fingered and 'smithman's' clothes totally ignored?

[slartibartfast]

I sincerely hope that the present investigation uncovers exactly what happened to Madeleine McCann.  I can take the sneers when I say that nothing would please me better than Madeleine McCann being found alive and well.

Snip

I agree with that.

However I am not hopeful of her still being alive and believe she died that evening.