Author Topic: The Smith sighting revisited.  (Read 142260 times)

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Offline misty

The Smith sighting revisited.
« on: September 17, 2014, 01:11:01 AM »
1611 to 1614 Witness testimony of Aoife Smith taken 2007/05/26


*Snip*
— On 30 April 2007 she travelled to Portugal on holiday, specifically to the Algarve. She came with her parents Martin and Mary Smith and her two nieces, AC and EC.
— They stayed in the Estrela Da Luz complex in Praia da Luz where her parents have an apartment.
— When they arrived at the apartment they met her brother, Peter Smith, her sister-in-law, S.McD.Smith, her nephew (six years old), CO** and the son of her sister-in-law, TA*** (13 years old).
They came on holiday for about 10 days, having returned to Ireland on 9 May 2007. (She is not absolutely certain of the day).
— Her days on holiday were spent in the swimming pool of the complex where they were lodged, on the beach of Luz and in the shopping centre. Normally, they were spent in Praia da Luz - Vila da Luz.
Dinner was taken between 19h00 and 20h00, in the apartment or in the Restaurants "Dolphin", "Cavaleiro da Luz", "Chaplin" or the "Marujo", all situated in the Praia da Luz area.
' When they ate at home they would not normally go out. When they went to eat at the restaurants they stopped by Kelly's Bar, situated, she thinks, on Calheta Street in Praia da Luz

__________________________________________________________________________________________


Bearing in mind how long it took the Smiths to come forward, I wonder what percentage of 100 they are  sure it was the night of the 3rd they saw this man & child? I see no questioning regarding how many times the witnesses walked this route during the holiday. In fact, Aoife was not even sure which day they returned home.

                                                  _______________________________________

*Snip from Martin Smith's statement*

 He was heading toward his apartment (Estrela da Luz complex) which is located a little above the street Travessa da Escola Primária (Primary school crossing). As he reached this artery, he saw an individual carrying a child, who walked normally and fitted in perfectly in that area, in that it is common to see people carrying children, at least during the holiday season.




« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 03:50:31 AM by John »

Offline pegasus

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2014, 01:15:56 AM »
I think the Smith group were sure of the date because some of them were flying from Faro the next morning.

Offline Brietta

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2014, 01:23:54 AM »
Given the worldwide publicity surrounding Madeleine’s disappearance it is surprising that the significance of what they had seen did not suggest itself to someone in the party long before it did.

It is perplexing the first sighting alibied an arguido; it is equally perplexing that an amended statement fingered another arguido.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Anna

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2014, 01:28:15 AM »
Given the worldwide publicity surrounding Madeleine’s disappearance it is surprising that the significance of what they had seen did not suggest itself to someone in the party long before it did.

It is perplexing the first sighting alibied an arguido; it is equally perplexing that an amended statement fingered another arguido.

I hadnt considered that Brietta, but true
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline pegasus

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2014, 01:53:41 AM »
Given the worldwide publicity surrounding Madeleine’s disappearance it is surprising that the significance of what they had seen did not suggest itself to someone in the party long before it did.

It is perplexing the first sighting alibied an arguido; it is equally perplexing that an amended statement fingered another arguido.
IIRC the Smiths came forward before the JT sighting was common knowledge.
I think the notion that the disappearance featured the unlikely scenario of someone openly carrying the missing child in arms through the streets did not widely exist at that time.

Offline misty

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2014, 02:01:50 AM »
IIRC the Smiths came forward before the JT sighting was common knowledge.
I think the notion that the disappearance featured the unlikely scenario of someone openly carrying the missing child in arms through the streets did not widely exist at that time.


Yet the PJ continued to promote "Eggman/Tannerman" openly carrying a child as their main lead for....how many months/years?
 Joao Carlos took the Smiths' statements, they spent hours doing the reconstruction/taking photos/plotting street positions - then did precisely NOTHING further with any of that eidence until Plan A to trap the parents had failed.
I make no bones about it - the PJ fed someone that description of Tannerman/Gerry's clothing..........

Offline Anna

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2014, 02:12:07 AM »
I believe tannerman was released almost immediatly in the press
and MS made a statement on 26th may, but I read somewhere that Amaral was planning for  his return to give more info, but he left the PJ and it wasnt done by his replacement. We didnt hear about the sighting for a while IIRC

Processos Vol XIII
Page 3995 (in English)

Email sent from Joao Carlos Silva Pereira to Bernard Gattney

8th November 2007
Subject: Martin Smith

Bernard ,

According to our phone contact, I hereby enclose the report on Martin Smith, son of P S and C S, born in Ireland on *****, and an Irish citizen, passport nº *****, home address*****.

Following the enclosed report you are now kindly requested to ask him the following questions:

- Does he confirm the statement he made in Portugal on May 26th 2007?

- Can he describe in detail the individual he saw carrying a child on May 3rd 2007, notwithstanding the fact that he has already made this description in his previous statements? Was this individual alone?

- When and in what mass medium has he seen the news of Gerald McCann going down the plane stairs, and carrying one of his children? (If possible he should be shown the above-mentioned pictures, as well as asked whether he confirms or disconfirms this man was the same individual he saw on May 3rd 2007).

- Was it really Gerry McCann? Is he sure of this fact?

- Does he recognise Gerald McCann from the facial features or from the way he was carrying the child?

- Are his family members, namely the ones who were with him on May 3rd 2007, able to recognise the individual? If yes, do they also identify the individual as being Gerald McCann? (If yes, such family members should also be interviewed with a view to equally answering the above questions).

- Any other possible significant question, whether arising from the answers of Martin Smith to the above questions or that is deemed as relevant, should be equally asked.

“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Brietta

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2014, 02:14:38 AM »
IIRC the Smiths came forward before the JT sighting was common knowledge.
I think the notion that the disappearance featured the unlikely scenario of someone openly carrying the missing child in arms through the streets did not widely exist at that time.

That the Jane Tanner sighting was not in the public domain means nothing.

The amazing similarities of both sightings even to the description of the man not looking like a tourist led Dr Kate McCann to take hope that this was a clue to Madeleine's kidnap.

That the investigation unfortunately leaked like a sieve is evidenced by the myriad of newspaper stories gleaned directly and illegally from police sources.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline John

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2014, 02:16:57 AM »
Aoife said in her statement they went to Kelly's Bar whenever they ate out. In the same way the disbelievers question the Tapas group alcohol intake, can the same questions not be asked of the adult Smiths? How sharp or hazy were their memories? Martin Smith also wasn't wearing his glasses. Technically, the evidence is dependent on a 12 year old girl.
I wonder how accurate their holiday timeline would prove to be - as compared to the Tapas group????

Mary Smith was so close to Smithman that she asked him a question which he ignored. That said, I cannot believe that such a crucial witness wasn't compelled to travel back to Portugal to provide more information including an e-fit as to her recollections.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline misty

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2014, 02:21:44 AM »
Mary Smith was so close to Smithman that she asked him a question which he ignored. That said, I cannot believe that such a crucial witness wasn't compelled to travel back to Portugal to provide more information including an e-fit as to her recollections.

Who said Mary Smith spoke to Smithman? It's not mentioned in any of the statements on file & it certainly wasn't mentioned on Crimewatch,

Offline Anna

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2014, 02:31:34 AM »
Mary Smith was so close to Smithman that she asked him a question which he ignored. That said, I cannot believe that such a crucial witness wasn't compelled to travel back to Portugal to provide more information including an e-fit as to her recollections.

How could someone carrying a sleeping child with her head on his shoulder, answer someone without possibly waking the child.
Of course smithman could have been foreign and didnt understand the language.
He could also for some reason be shy of the law and that is why he hasnt come forward.
I dont know why Mrs Smith didnt go to PT but maybe the media attention scared her, Martin had a rough time with them I believe.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Anna

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2014, 03:30:00 AM »
Who said Mary Smith spoke to Smithman? It's not mentioned in any of the statements on file & it certainly wasn't mentioned on Crimewatch,

Actually I dont know where it came from...I thought it was a statement, but can find none. Too tired to search now, but here is a bit till then.
Night Night

Daily mail
"My wife Mary remembered afterwards that she asked him, 'Oh, is she asleep?' But he never acknowledged her one way or another.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 03:20:10 PM by John »
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline John

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2014, 11:39:40 AM »
Who said Mary Smith spoke to Smithman? It's not mentioned in any of the statements on file & it certainly wasn't mentioned on Crimewatch,

Martin Smith did in an interview with The Daily Mail!



Maddie: Irishman provides dramatic new clues Daily Mail (appeared in paper edition only)
 
EXCLUSIVE: Tourist met rude man carrying child in blanket on night Madeleine vanished
 
By SANDRA MURPHY, VANESSA ALLEN
January 3, 2008
 
AN IRISH holidaymaker has spoken publicly for the first time of his disturbing encounter with a man carrying a child wrapped in a blanket on the night Madeleine McCann disappeared.
 
Now investigators hired by Madeleine's parents hope Martin Smith and his family can provide a crucial breakthrough.
 
Speaking from his home in Drogheda, Co. Louth, Mr Smith recalled the sighting, which is strikingly similar to one by a friend of the McCanns, Jane Tanner. In hindsight, the retired Mr Smith said, the mans rude behaviour should have aroused his suspicions.
 
He explained: "The one thing we noted afterwards was that he gave us no greeting.
 
"My wife Mary remembered afterwards that she asked him, 'Oh, is she asleep?' But he never acknowledged her one way or another.

 
"He just put his head down and averted his eyes. This is very unusual in a tourist town at such a quiet time of the year."
 
Their description of the barefoot child and the man, who wore beige trousers, echoes that of Miss Tanner, who said she saw a man carrying a sleeping child away from the McCanns apartment about 9.15pm.
 
Though the Smith family believe they met an almost identical man closer to 10pm, the coincidence prompted them to contact police after they returned to Ireland. Mr Smith said: "Luz is such a small place and so quiet, we felt a duty to tell police and let them decide if it was important."
 
Last night, McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said detectives from the Spanish agency Metodo 3 now hoped to speak to the family. "Metodo 3 is being very methodical, working through a number of people they think might be able to help them, and this family will be on their list."
 
On the night of the disappearance, Mr Smith was dining with his wife in the Dolphin restaurant in Praia Da Luz, where they are frequent visitors.
 
The couple were with their daughter Aoife, their son Peter and his wife Sile,as well as four grandchildren Tadhg, Cole, Aisling and Eimear.
 
All nine met the man holding a child but their recollection differs slightly from Miss Tanner's.
 
"In the image she gave, the man was holding the child forward in his arms. The man we saw had put the child over his shoulders. But Luz was very, very quiet at that time of the year and the likelihood of two young children being carried around like this is very small.

"Also, our timings are a bit different. She saw the man at 9.15pm. We say 9.45or 9.50pm and the sighting was only a five-minute walk from where the child was staying.

"I dont know if this information will help the McCanns. We kept interested in whats going on but we tried to avoid the limelight."
 
The father of six yesterday said the Irish family would do anything they could to help the McCanns find their missing daughter.
 
"We have not been contacted by the private detective hired by the McCanns, and have had no contact with the investigating police since May 26 last year.
 
"But anything we can do to help try to solve it, we will." Recalling the event she witnessed, Mr Smith said it was some time before the family realised they could be star witnesses
 
"We were out the night it happened. My son and his family were leaving on the Friday and we were going for a family meal. We went home about 9.50pm and we heard nothing at all about Madeleine McCann until the next day.
 
"I was taking my son Peter to the airport and on my way back, I heard that a kidnapping had happened in the village of Luz.
 
"We were looking at all the commotion on Sky News and we really felt quite helpless.
 
"We had two grandchildren with us at the time, aged four and five, and it had a terrible effect on them.
 
"They all wanted to sleep in the same room as us until we went home on the Wednesday.
 
"We were home two weeks when my son rang up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken. We all remembered that we had the same recollection. I felt we should report it to the police.
 
"I rang the Portuguese police and they took a statement from me on the phone.Then they asked me to make a statement to gardai, which I did in Drogheda two weeks after the disappearance.
 
"Two days later, Leicestershire police got on to us and said they wanted to speak to all nine of us. But we felt there was no point dragging grand children and the whole lot out to Portugal so just my eldest son, Peter, and youngest daughter, Aoife, and I flew to Luz to make a statement.
 
"The police were fairly busy and the station was pretty typical. They didnt seem to be the most efficient police you ever came across but they are probably no different to police anywhere else. We were interviewed separately and told them what we saw, and showed them on the map where we met the man and child.
 
"We spent the whole day there from 10.30am to 7pm with an interpreter. That day, May 26 last year, was the last time we had any contact with the investigation.I remember clearly because it was my wedding anniversary.
 
"I told them we went for dinner at the Dolphin Restaurant and then went on to have just one drink in Kelly's bar, just 50 yards away.
 
"We would normally have stayed out longer but my son and his family were going home the next day.
 
"As we made our way back to our apartment in Estrella da Luz, we met a guy with a child that appeared to be asleep.
 
"It looked like a blonde child, and I thought she might be four years old, as she was the same size as my grandchild who was with us.
 
"It was around 9.55pm and it was getting dark and he was looking downward so I couldnt tell you exactly what he looked like.
 
"None of us was 100 per cent sure what he was wearing but we all told police he was wearing beige trousers and a darker top. We all put him in his early 40s. I didnt think he was Portuguese." Insisting he knew chief suspect Robert Murat visually for years, Mr Smith told police the person he saw carrying a child could not be him.
 
"I told police it was definitely not him because the man wasn't as big as Murat. I think I would have definitely recognised him."
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 03:28:47 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2014, 11:53:16 AM »
I've always found that a bit odd.  A man is walking hurriedly towards you late in the evening, carrying what appears to be a sleeping child. He is completely unknown to you and does not meet your gaze but nonetheless you attempt to engage him in conversation by asking if the child is sleeping, as he hurries by?  Does anyone else not think this a bit strange?

Offline Brietta

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2014, 11:53:58 AM »
Martin Smith did!



Maddie: Irishman provides dramatic new clues Daily Mail (appeared in paper edition only)
 
EXCLUSIVE: Tourist met rude man carrying child in blanket on night Madeleine vanished
 
By SANDRA MURPHY, VANESSA ALLEN
January 3, 2008
 
AN IRISH holidaymaker has spoken publicly for the first time of his disturbing encounter with a man carrying a child wrapped in a blanket on the night Madeleine McCann disappeared.
 
Now investigators hired by Madeleine's parents hope Martin Smith and his family can provide a crucial breakthrough.
 
Speaking from his home in Drogheda, Co. Louth, Mr Smith recalled the sighting, which is strikingly similar to one by a friend of the McCanns, Jane Tanner. In hindsight, the retired Mr Smith said, the mans rude behaviour should have aroused his suspicions.
 
He explained: "The one thing we noted afterwards was that he gave us no greeting.
 
"My wife Mary remembered afterwards that she asked him, 'Oh, is she asleep?' But he never acknowledged her one way or another.

 
"He just put his head down and averted his eyes. This is very unusual in a tourist town at such a quiet time of the year."
 
Their description of the barefoot child and the man, who wore beige trousers, echoes that of Miss Tanner, who said she saw a man carrying a sleeping child away from the McCanns apartment about 9.15pm.
 
Though the Smith family believe they met an almost identical man closer to 10pm, the coincidence prompted them to contact police after they returned to Ireland. Mr Smith said: "Luz is such a small place and so quiet, we felt a duty to tell police and let them decide if it was important."
 
Last night, McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said detectives from the Spanish agency Metodo 3 now hoped to speak to the family. "Metodo 3 is being very methodical, working through a number of people they think might be able to help them, and this family will be on their list."
 
On the night of the disappearance, Mr Smith was dining with his wife in the Dolphin restaurant in Praia Da Luz, where they are frequent visitors.
 
The couple were with their daughter Aoife, their son Peter and his wife Sile,as well as four grandchildren Tadhg, Cole, Aisling and Eimear.
 
All nine met the man holding a child but their recollection differs slightly from Miss Tanner's.
 
"In the image she gave, the man was holding the child forward in his arms. The man we saw had put the child over his shoulders. But Luz was very, very quiet at that time of the year and the likelihood of two young children being carried around like this is very small.

"Also, our timings are a bit different. She saw the man at 9.15pm. We say 9.45or 9.50pm and the sighting was only a five-minute walk from where the child was staying.

"I dont know if this information will help the McCanns. We kept interested in whats going on but we tried to avoid the limelight."
 
The father of six yesterday said the Irish family would do anything they could to help the McCanns find their missing daughter.
 
"We have not been contacted by the private detective hired by the McCanns, and have had no contact with the investigating police since May 26 last year.
 
"But anything we can do to help try to solve it, we will." Recalling the event she witnessed, Mr Smith said it was some time before the family realised they could be star witnesses
 
"We were out the night it happened. My son and his family were leaving on the Friday and we were going for a family meal. We went home about 9.50pm and we heard nothing at all about Madeleine McCann until the next day.
 
"I was taking my son Peter to the airport and on my way back, I heard that a kidnapping had happened in the village of Luz.
 
"We were looking at all the commotion on Sky News and we really felt quite helpless.
 
"We had two grandchildren with us at the time, aged four and five, and it had a terrible effect on them.
 
"They all wanted to sleep in the same room as us until we went home on the Wednesday.
 
"We were home two weeks when my son rang up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken. We all remembered that we had the same recollection. I felt we should report it to the police.
 
"I rang the Portuguese police and they took a statement from me on the phone.Then they asked me to make a statement to gardai, which I did in Drogheda two weeks after the disappearance.
 
"Two days later, Leicestershire police got on to us and said they wanted to speak to all nine of us. But we felt there was no point dragging grand children and the whole lot out to Portugal so just my eldest son, Peter, and youngest daughter, Aoife, and I flew to Luz to make a statement.
 
"The police were fairly busy and the station was pretty typical. They didnt seem to be the most efficient police you ever came across but they are probably no different to police anywhere else. We were interviewed separately and told them what we saw, and showed them on the map where we met the man and child.
 
"We spent the whole day there from 10.30am to 7pm with an interpreter. That day, May 26 last year, was the last time we had any contact with the investigation.I remember clearly because it was my wedding anniversary.
 
"I told them we went for dinner at the Dolphin Restaurant and then went on to have just one drink in Kelly's bar, just 50 yards away.
 
"We would normally have stayed out longer but my son and his family were going home the next day.
 
"As we made our way back to our apartment in Estrella da Luz, we met a guy with a child that appeared to be asleep.
 
"It looked like a blonde child, and I thought she might be four years old, as she was the same size as my grandchild who was with us.
 
"It was around 9.55pm and it was getting dark and he was looking downward so I couldnt tell you exactly what he looked like.
 
"None of us was 100 per cent sure what he was wearing but we all told police he was wearing beige trousers and a darker top. We all put him in his early 40s. I didnt think he was Portuguese." Insisting he knew chief suspect Robert Murat visually for years, Mr Smith told police the person he saw carrying a child could not be him.
 
"I told police it was definitely not him because the man wasn't as big as Murat. I think I would have definitely recognised him."

I think Misty was referring to the fact that there is no official statement to that effect, only newspaper reports quoting a man notoriously averse to publicity via newspapers.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5018.msg186801#msg186801
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....