Author Topic: The Smith sighting revisited.  (Read 153941 times)

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Offline pathfinder73

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #240 on: October 17, 2014, 01:29:57 AM »
But Aoife withheld that information from the PJ while the investigation was still live in Portugal, choosing instead to produce an e-fit for an agency working for one of the arguidos,

I think the yard would be interested in finding out more from a witness who said she saw his face. I know I would.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Brietta

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #241 on: October 17, 2014, 01:35:54 AM »
He was going in the wrong direction but because he was heading towards Murat's they thought it was him and Jane confirmed he had the same walk as the man she saw. An abductor would go away from where they were not towards them on the route they used to check.

You seem to think they knew Robert Murat and where he lived.  They didn’t.

Do you have a cite to what you say about Jane Tanner confirming Robert Murat's walk?  Because as far as I know Jane Tanner did not confirm anything about Robert Murat.

Don’t know what you are trying to say in your last sentence, but I doubt if any of us knows what's in the mind of an abductor.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #242 on: October 17, 2014, 01:47:59 AM »
You seem to think they knew Robert Murat and where he lived.  They didn’t.

Do you have a cite to what you say about Jane Tanner confirming Robert Murat's walk?  Because as far as I know Jane Tanner did not confirm anything about Robert Murat.

Don’t know what you are trying to say in your last sentence, but I doubt if any of us knows what's in the mind of an abductor.

Common sense. Any fool would go away from danger not towards it. 

Truth of the Lie is the source.

Olegário de Sousa
Chief PJ Inspector

18.31 – A male individual, aged 33 and a resident in the area of the events has been made an arguido. He was questioned as such, and no evidence has been collected that could justify his detention and further judicial questioning.

19.11 – The journalist suspected him, but we didn’t follow what the journalist said. We followed the analysis of the facts. The facts were analysed, what actually had happened, and we followed a testimony, a testimony that had to be weakened in order to advance the abduction theory. Jane Tanner’s testimony. Because otherwise, the abduction theory died right there. The major foundation for the abduction was what that witness had seen: a man carrying a child, walking into the direction of Robert Murat’s house.

19.45 – Maybe people don’t know, but the search at Robert Murat’s house takes place on a Monday morning, and on Sunday evening, we’re in a meeting with the Public Ministry, with the prosecutor, with the judge, me and Dr Luís Neves, we’re at the court house while diligences are being carried out in Praia da Luz. Diligences to confirm the suspicion against Robert Murat. And Mrs Jane Tanner is placed inside a police surveillance vehicle, several people walk by, policemen, people that Mrs Jane Tanner had never seen before, and Mr Robert Murat among them, and she says that from the way he walks, he is the person that was carrying the child.

20.27 – In fact, Jane Tanner’s memory progressively improves as time goes by. The first e-fit that she helps to draw is a vague sketch. She later makes a positive identification of Robert Murat as the man that she saw that night. Several months later, she participates in a new e-fit, now miraculously remembering every facial trace of a man that is very different from the Murat that she recognised earlier on.

20.55 - Another document that weighed in at incriminating Robert Murat was a psychological profile by English experts, which in very general traces stated that his voluntary attitude during the days that followed the crime, helping the investigators and the family, could be the mask of a criminal.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline misty

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #243 on: October 17, 2014, 01:51:52 AM »
I think the yard would be interested in finding out more from a witness who said she saw his face. I know I would.

SY had no input unless requested by the PJ. The Smith family made e-fits to private UK investigators without the knowledge or permission of the PJ, so they broke the secrecy laws. The e-fits would be inadmissible in a Portuguese court.  Somebody knew what they were doing when it became clear JT couldn't ID the man she saw.

Offline Brietta

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #244 on: October 17, 2014, 02:05:47 AM »
Common sense. Any fool would go away from danger not towards it. 

Truth of the Lie is the source.

Olegário de Sousa
Chief PJ Inspector

18.31 – A male individual, aged 33 and a resident in the area of the events has been made an arguido. He was questioned as such, and no evidence has been collected that could justify his detention and further judicial questioning.

19.11 – The journalist suspected him, but we didn’t follow what the journalist said. We followed the analysis of the facts. The facts were analysed, what actually had happened, and we followed a testimony, a testimony that had to be weakened in order to advance the abduction theory. Jane Tanner’s testimony. Because otherwise, the abduction theory died right there. The major foundation for the abduction was what that witness had seen: a man carrying a child, walking into the direction of Robert Murat’s house.

19.45 – Maybe people don’t know, but the search at Robert Murat’s house takes place on a Monday morning, and on Sunday evening, we’re in a meeting with the Public Ministry, with the prosecutor, with the judge, me and Dr Luís Neves, we’re at the court house while diligences are being carried out in Praia da Luz. Diligences to confirm the suspicion against Robert Murat. And Mrs Jane Tanner is placed inside a police surveillance vehicle, several people walk by, policemen, people that Mrs Jane Tanner had never seen before, and Mr Robert Murat among them, and she says that from the way he walks, he is the person that was carrying the child.

20.27 – In fact, Jane Tanner’s memory progressively improves as time goes by. The first e-fit that she helps to draw is a vague sketch. She later makes a positive identification of Robert Murat as the man that she saw that night. Several months later, she participates in a new e-fit, now miraculously remembering every facial trace of a man that is very different from the Murat that she recognised earlier on.

20.55 - Another document that weighed in at incriminating Robert Murat was a psychological profile by English experts, which in very general traces stated that his voluntary attitude during the days that followed the crime, helping the investigators and the family, could be the mask of a criminal.

Surely if the danger is all around that is a moot point.  IMO if tannerman was also smithman who thought he had been seen by Jane he might have expected the alarm to be raised almost immediately ... when it was not ... he maybe took his chance to double back and go in the opposite direction where he walked into the Smiths.

Yeah ... I've seen that used as a cite for JT before ... but that is definitely contrary to what she says in her statements.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #245 on: October 17, 2014, 07:40:38 AM »
Surely if the danger is all around that is a moot point.  IMO if tannerman was also smithman who thought he had been seen by Jane he might have expected the alarm to be raised almost immediately ... when it was not ... he maybe took his chance to double back and go in the opposite direction where he walked into the Smiths.

Yeah ... I've seen that used as a cite for JT before ... but that is definitely contrary to what she says in her statements.

Tannerman definitely wasn't Smithman.

You know that.
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline Benice

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #246 on: October 17, 2014, 08:19:46 AM »
Common sense. Any fool would go away from danger not towards it. 

Truth of the Lie is the source.

Olegário de Sousa
Chief PJ Inspector

18.31 – A male individual, aged 33 and a resident in the area of the events has been made an arguido. He was questioned as such, and no evidence has been collected that could justify his detention and further judicial questioning.

19.11 – The journalist suspected him, but we didn’t follow what the journalist said. We followed the analysis of the facts. The facts were analysed, what actually had happened, and we followed a testimony, a testimony that had to be weakened in order to advance the abduction theory. Jane Tanner’s testimony. Because otherwise, the abduction theory died right there. The major foundation for the abduction was what that witness had seen: a man carrying a child, walking into the direction of Robert Murat’s house.

19.45 – Maybe people don’t know, but the search at Robert Murat’s house takes place on a Monday morning, and on Sunday evening, we’re in a meeting with the Public Ministry, with the prosecutor, with the judge, me and Dr Luís Neves, we’re at the court house while diligences are being carried out in Praia da Luz. Diligences to confirm the suspicion against Robert Murat. And Mrs Jane Tanner is placed inside a police surveillance vehicle, several people walk by, policemen, people that Mrs Jane Tanner had never seen before, and Mr Robert Murat among them, and she says that from the way he walks, he is the person that was carrying the child.

20.27 – In fact, Jane Tanner’s memory progressively improves as time goes by. The first e-fit that she helps to draw is a vague sketch. She later makes a positive identification of Robert Murat as the man that she saw that night. Several months later, she participates in a new e-fit, now miraculously remembering every facial trace of a man that is very different from the Murat that she recognised earlier on.

20.55 - Another document that weighed in at incriminating Robert Murat was a psychological profile by English experts, which in very general traces stated that his voluntary attitude during the days that followed the crime, helping the investigators and the family, could be the mask of a criminal.

Jane Tanner was not able to identify Murat as the man she had seen - because she never got a proper look at him during the 'Identity Parade'.    She didn't even recognise him as the man she'd just  met on her way to the IP.

This is borne out by the fact that after the IP she was not taken back to the police station to make a statement - but was told  there was no need and she could go home.  That would never have happened if she had made a positive identification.       Also by the fact that the AG would definitely have mentioned it in his Final Report - in the section giving the reasons etc why Murat was made an Arguido.      Obviously if he had been identified as the person seen carrying the child away then that would have been a mega piece of evidence against him - in fact probably the most important evidence and would have been given great prominence IMO.     But no-where in the Final Report does the AG state that JT identified Murat as the person she saw.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Angelo222

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #247 on: October 17, 2014, 08:52:47 AM »
Tannerman definitely wasn't Smithman.

You know that.

Do you base this entirely on the length of the sleeves of the kids pj's?
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #248 on: October 17, 2014, 08:56:17 AM »
Do you base this entirely on the length of the sleeves of the kids pj's?

I base it on Jane Tanner having identified the man she saw as innocent creche dad.

That & common sense.

E.T.A, Yes,  & the sleeve length & Kate seeing fit not to tell the truth in 'Madeleine Was Here' & on the Oprah Winfrey show, & it being quite obvious why she didn't.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5018.msg177075#msg177075
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 09:07:17 AM by Wonderfulspam »
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Offline Angelo222

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #249 on: October 17, 2014, 08:59:46 AM »
It goes without saying that the Smiths would have expected their e-fits to be put into the public domain but they were suppressed for nearly two years before being released to the Portuguese and Leicestershire police or so we are led to believe.  It seems bizarre that it took another two years before SY were able to acquire them along with Oakley's suppressed Report which again we are led to believe was highly critical of the McCanns.  A Report which by the way remains suppressed to the public because of the damage it could still do.

So in a nutshell the no stone unturned pledge is in reality no stone unturned if there is anything rotten under it?
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Angelo222

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #250 on: October 17, 2014, 09:02:16 AM »
I base it on Jane Tanner having identified the man she saw as innocent creche dad.

That & common sense.

Tanner never identified him and the evidence taken as a whole does not support it.  I still go with a 9.15 removal from the apartment and carried to a waiting vehicle parked just beyond where Tanner saw him.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 09:08:03 AM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #251 on: October 17, 2014, 09:05:28 AM »
Tanner never identified him and the evidence taken as a whole does not support it.

You think that nice Mr Redwood didn't consult with Jane about a man she saw.

If she had any doubts.... she'd have told him, SY would make appeals on her sighting, they haven't, he's in the dustbin.
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline Angelo222

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #252 on: October 17, 2014, 09:11:20 AM »
You think that nice Mr Redwood didn't consult with Jane about a man she saw.

If she had any doubts.... she'd have told him, SY would make appeals on her sighting, they haven't, he's in the dustbin.

Jane saw nothing other than a pair of dangling legs and a faceless man so there was little she could add to her original statement.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 09:14:29 AM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #253 on: October 17, 2014, 09:14:16 AM »
....Also, it being totally unfeasible that Tannerman could have carried out an abduction between the time of Dr McCann leaving the apartment & Tannerman being seen by Jane.

He had to have entered the front door, locked it behind him, moved the childrens bedroom door then hid during Gerry's check, then after Gerry left, drug all 3 children, open the window & shutters then leave with Madie out the front door, closing & locking it behind him.

But Matt made no mention of gusty curtains or slamming doors....
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #254 on: October 17, 2014, 09:15:13 AM »
Jane saw nothing other than a pair of dangling legs so there was little she could add to her original statement.

Janes memory does improve with time.
Christian Brueckner Fan Club