Author Topic: The Smith sighting revisited.  (Read 153712 times)

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Offline Angelo222

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #255 on: October 17, 2014, 09:19:08 AM »
....Also, it being totally unfeasible that Tannerman could have carried out an abduction between the time of Dr McCann leaving the apartment & Tannerman being seen by Jane.

Just as it would have been between 9.30 and 9.55 with Tanner and her partner wandering around.  In any event I never mentioned abduction. Oakley came to the same conclusion in their report seen by the Sunday Times that she wasn't abducted, a report which is still under that unturned stone.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 09:22:03 AM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #256 on: October 17, 2014, 09:21:29 AM »
Just as it would have been between 9.30 and 9.55 with Tanner and her partner wandering around.

Kate must have missed the 'abductor' by a matter of seconds...
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Offline pathfinder73

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #257 on: October 17, 2014, 09:26:41 AM »
Tanner never identified him and the evidence taken as a whole does not support it.  I still go with a 9.15 removal from the apartment and carried to a waiting vehicle parked just beyond where Tanner saw him.

It was before 9:15 and the child Tanner saw was younger and smaller than Madeleine. That explains the different carrying style.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #258 on: October 17, 2014, 09:37:21 AM »
Surely if the danger is all around that is a moot point.  IMO if tannerman was also smithman who thought he had been seen by Jane he might have expected the alarm to be raised almost immediately ... when it was not ... he maybe took his chance to double back and go in the opposite direction where he walked into the Smiths.

Yeah ... I've seen that used as a cite for JT before ... but that is definitely contrary to what she says in her statements.

Is it hell a moot point. You get away from danger. So an abductor would go out the front key door over the wall in a car and away. Not crossing a street in full view of anybody on it and that leads to the tapas bar. A getaway car didn't happen because Smithman didn't have one. This was not pre-planned for days operation. This was saving somebody's life. I've lost one I'm not going to lose two or possibly more.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 09:40:44 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Benice

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #259 on: October 17, 2014, 10:07:30 AM »
Is it hell a moot point. You get away from danger. So an abductor would go out the front key door over the wall in a car and away. Not crossing a street in full view of anybody on it and that leads to the tapas bar. A getaway car didn't happen because Smithman didn't have one. This was not pre-planned for days operation. This was saving somebody's life. I've lost one I'm not going to lose two or possibly more.

From memory (so apols if I'm wrong)  - but wasn't there a video made by someone 'reconstructing' the abduction - which involved taking the same route as Tannerman - to a small car park nearby - getting in a car and driving off and out of PdL - proving it could all be done in a matter of minutes?

Would you leave a car parked in the immediate vicinity of 5A - where it might be seen by any number of people if it was going to be used as a 'getaway' car - or would you park it as close as possible, but in a place where people going to or leaving 5A apartment block would not see it.   

IMO It is also a possibility that the man the Smiths saw had just got out of a car.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Angelo222

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #260 on: October 17, 2014, 10:34:43 AM »
From memory (so apols if I'm wrong)  - but wasn't there a video made by someone 'reconstructing' the abduction - which involved taking the same route as Tannerman - to a small car park nearby - getting in a car and driving off and out of PdL - proving it could all be done in a matter of minutes?

Would you leave a car parked in the immediate vicinity of 5A - where it might be seen by any number of people if it was going to be used as a 'getaway' car - or would you park it as close as possible, but in a place where people going to or leaving 5A apartment block would not see it.   

IMO It is also a possibility that the man the Smiths saw had just got out of a car.

If she was carried out of 5a rather than wandering out, the use of a get-away-car is an almost certainty. What worries me about the Smith sighting though is the long sleeve pyjamas since Madeleine was wearing short sleeved pj's when she went to bed. In my opinion, the Smiths sighting is a red herring.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Benice

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #261 on: October 17, 2014, 11:09:10 AM »
If she was carried out of 5a rather than wandering out, the use of a get-away-car is an almost certainty. What worries me about the Smith sighting though is the long sleeve pyjamas since Madeleine was wearing short sleeved pj's when she went to bed. In my opinion, the Smiths sighting is a red herring.

In view of what we know about the fallibility of memory - I don't think a couple of discrepancies would negate the large amount of 'similarities' in the descriptions given.    It would be a miracle IMO if both descriptions had been identical in every detail.       Short sleeves or mid length sleeves later recalled by one witness as being long sleeves - is a  minor discrepancy IMO.   The fact that both parties saw a child with bare feet, not covered  by anything and possibly wearing pajamas being carried by a man who neither party thought looked like a tourist is far more significant IMO.    If one party had said the man was wearing a hat or was short and fat  etc etc then that would be cause for serious doubt IMO.   But both descriptions in relation to age, height, build and clothing were remarkably close.

I used to think this man must be involved because he never came forward, and neither did anyone else i.e. the person he was taking the child to - or the person from whom he had collected the child.    I would have expected say - for instance  - someone ringing the police saying  'that was my son - he was taking his daughter home - I had been babysitting''.  etc etc.

Since then I have changed my mind - as if the locals were really scared of the PJ (as Mrs Fenn mentioned)- then I can imagine the man's mother or wife saying  'Please don't get involved - you could end up being accused of this crime'.  So he decided to keep out of it.      Who knows. 
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline misty

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #262 on: October 17, 2014, 12:30:11 PM »
In view of what we know about the fallibility of memory - I don't think a couple of discrepancies would negate the large amount of 'similarities' in the descriptions given.    It would be a miracle IMO if both descriptions had been identical in every detail.       Short sleeves or mid length sleeves later recalled by one witness as being long sleeves - is a  minor discrepancy IMO.   The fact that both parties saw a child with bare feet, not covered  by anything and possibly wearing pajamas being carried by a man who neither party thought looked like a tourist is far more significant IMO.    If one party had said the man was wearing a hat or was short and fat  etc etc then that would be cause for serious doubt IMO.   But both descriptions in relation to age, height, build and clothing were remarkably close.

I used to think this man must be involved because he never came forward, and neither did anyone else i.e. the person he was taking the child to - or the person from whom he had collected the child.    I would have expected say - for instance  - someone ringing the police saying  'that was my son - he was taking his daughter home - I had been babysitting''.  etc etc.

Since then I have changed my mind - as if the locals were really scared of the PJ (as Mrs Fenn mentioned)- then I can imagine the man's mother or wife saying  'Please don't get involved - you could end up being accused of this crime'.  So he decided to keep out of it.      Who knows.

Not all the locals were scared of the PJ - one was very keen to help.
If a local man was Smithman, why would he be scared if he actually had a young daughter himself to prove it wasn't Madeleine he was carrying?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #263 on: October 17, 2014, 12:42:56 PM »
Not all the locals were scared of the PJ - one was very keen to help.
If a local man was Smithman, why would he be scared if he actually had a young daughter himself to prove it wasn't Madeleine he was carrying?

Exactly you would want to clear your name. Not coming forward = suspicion and when he connects with other evidence it's elementary my dear Watson. We have an efit and an exact time that possibly connects to a person and efits that weren't released to the public in the search for Maddy.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 12:45:37 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Online Eleanor

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #264 on: October 17, 2014, 12:47:29 PM »
Not all the locals were scared of the PJ - one was very keen to help.
If a local man was Smithman, why would he be scared if he actually had a young daughter himself to prove it wasn't Madeleine he was carrying?

Because he didn't want to be ripped apart by Trolls?

However, I think that Tanner man was Smith man.  And I think he was hiding somewhere in the interim to get directions.  If there was a boat off shore then a rendezvous had to be arranged.

Call me daft if you like, but I always hope for the best.

Offline Carana

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #265 on: October 17, 2014, 12:59:55 PM »
Exactly you would want to clear your name. Not coming forward = suspicion and when he connects with other evidence it's elementary my dear Watson. We have an efit and an exact time that possibly connects to a person and efits that weren't released to the public in the search for Maddy.


Erm... who says that innocent people hadn't come forward at some point during the general chaos, and whose communications hadn't been correctly recorded or lost?

Tannerman may indeed be an innocent dad carrying his child, as might Smithman.

Shouldn't people in the area carrying a child have been thoroughly checked and eliminated as part of a logical process right at the beginning?

The PJ leaks to a frenzied media may have put some people off, and the general chaos may mean that some attempts to communicate with the police / hotline weren't noticed at the time.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #266 on: October 17, 2014, 01:26:38 PM »
If she was carried out of 5a rather than wandering out, the use of a get-away-car is an almost certainty. What worries me about the Smith sighting though is the long sleeve pyjamas since Madeleine was wearing short sleeved pj's when she went to bed. In my opinion, the Smiths sighting is a red herring.

If it was a red herring then the McCanns would have no reason to fear the sighting.

But they do, hence Kate not telling the truth & them efits being stuffed under a rock.
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ferryman

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Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #267 on: October 17, 2014, 01:44:38 PM »
How could Kate introduce e-fits, which never formed part of the shelved investigation, into the public domain via her book without compromising the Smiths?

Compromising the Smiths, certainly, but still more important, (potentially) compromising an innocent man carrying his own child.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #268 on: October 17, 2014, 01:45:56 PM »
Compromising the Smiths, certainly, but still more important, (potentially) compromising an innocent man carrying his own child.

This wasn't an innocent man, but then, you already know that.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 02:44:12 PM by Mr Moderator »
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Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #269 on: October 17, 2014, 02:01:52 PM »
[quote removed]

Just explain how it happened Eleanor.

How did tannerman, or anyone for that matter, fitting in with the evidence, extract Maddie from 5a?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 02:43:01 PM by Mr Moderator »
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