The Smith sighting revisited.

[pegasus]

Thinner chinned efit is totally different, large features relative to face size, large eyes, therefore IMO is of a different man, different sighting (maybe the talkingonmobileman mentioned in a press report?)

[misty]

My theory is backed up by evidence in statements, time receipts etc. - in the files, long checks. When one witness says Kate left to check at 9:50 and another said it was exactly 10:03 then you know something ain't right! But when others reveal it's closer to 9:50 then the 10:03 anomaly needs to be looked at in closer detail. When that happens you get to the heart of the matter and what really happened that night. And why the timeline had to change 

Sr Amaral didn't agree with Aoife's 10.03 time for the Smithman sighting. He said he felt it was later to fit with his thesis.

[Brietta]

Sr Amaral didn't agree with Aoife's 10.03 time for the Smithman sighting. He said he felt it was later to fit with his thesis.

There are a few differing opinions regarding the timings of events for that evening, here’s just one …

>>snip<<
When he arrived there, by vehicle, at around 21:10, he remembers that next to the Tapas reception, he saw a vehicle, dark blue in colour, with Portuguese license plates.

>>snip<<
A few minutes later, when it was around 21H20, he heard some clamour, which made him leave toward the restaurant, a few meters away, and was then informed that a child had disappeared.

>>snip<<
Later, at around 21:40, he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items, principally clothing. He was told by his colleagues that the child who had disappeared was a child of one of those couples;
. When he left, he noticed that the dark blue vehicle was no longer in its location (previously noted) and does not know of the existence or any connection between the presence of that vehicle and the disappearance of the child;
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ARLINDO-PELEGA.htm

So between the sober (I should jolly well think so) twelve year old who was very firm on times but sometimes not what day of the week it was ... and everyone else … I’m going to place my faith in whatever HOLMES came up with to convince the Met it would be a good idea to reopen Madeleine’s case. 

[misty]

There are a few differing opinions regarding the timings of events for that evening, here’s just one …

>>snip<<
When he arrived there, by vehicle, at around 21:10, he remembers that next to the Tapas reception, he saw a vehicle, dark blue in colour, with Portuguese license plates.

>>snip<<
A few minutes later, when it was around 21H20, he heard some clamour, which made him leave toward the restaurant, a few meters away, and was then informed that a child had disappeared.

>>snip<<
Later, at around 21:40, he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items, principally clothing. He was told by his colleagues that the child who had disappeared was a child of one of those couples;
. When he left, he noticed that the dark blue vehicle was no longer in its location (previously noted) and does not know of the existence or any connection between the presence of that vehicle and the disappearance of the child;
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ARLINDO-PELEGA.htm

So between the sober (I should jolly well think so) twelve year old who was very firm on times but sometimes not what day of the week it was ... and everyone else … I’m going to place my faith in whatever HOLMES came up with to convince the Met it would be a good idea to reopen Madeleine’s case.

Yes - and here's another one:-
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BAREND_WEIJDOM.htm
Witness Statement

Barend Jan Jacob Weijdom

Date: 2007/05/16

Occupation: Property Manager

Place of Work: P da L


He comes to the process as a witness and of his own will.

He has lived in P da L since 1996.

He heard about the news being investigated on the evening of 3rd May at about 21.30 - 21.40 from P**** B******, a Dutchman and owner of the Atlantico restaurant, who passed by the witness near the Baptista supermarket, in P da L and who asked for his help in searching for Madeleine.

He then went to the place where the events occurred which was at about 21.45 - 21.50. At this time various local people and MW staff were present.

When questioned he said that the police had not yet arrived and that about 5 minutes had passed.

When asked he says that he has known Robert Murat for about 3 or 4 years, making clear that his relation with him is limited to 'good morning' and 'good evening'.

When questioned he says that he did not see Murat on the night of the events and he makes it clear that if Murat had been at the scene he would have remembered.

[pegasus]

And an example from another staff statement
"between 09.30 and 22.00 ... he immediately contacted the GNR"
The Portugal Telecom records however show that the GNR were contacted, not between 21.30 and 22.00, but at 22.42 IIRC
So the remembering of times can easily be 45 minutes out.

[Brietta]

And an example from another staff statement
"between 09.30 and 22.00 ... he immediately contacted the GNR"
The Portugal Telecom records however show that the GNR were contacted, not between 21.30 and 22.00, but at 22.42 IIRC
So the remembering of times can easily be 45 minutes out.

But isn't it amazing that so many seem to have made much the same error.

Helder did also say ... "He knows about the situation that happened at the Ocean Club concerning the disappearance of a little given (sic) that on the day in question (03/05/2007) he was on duty and was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant between 09.30 and 22.00 who informed him that the daughter of some guests who were dining there had disappeared."

Now I can understand tourists having no sense of time.
I can understand people in an absolute panic having no sense of times.
But I struggle a bit when I think about workers on shift and particularly workers nearing the end of their shift who don't have a fair idea about approx. times to be 45mins out in their reckoning.

[misty]

And an example from another staff statement
"between 09.30 and 22.00 ... he immediately contacted the GNR"
The Portugal Telecom records however show that the GNR were contacted, not between 21.30 and 22.00, but at 22.42 IIRC
So the remembering of times can easily be 45 minutes out.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR-SANTOS.htm
7th May 2007. Housing dept. head.
*snip*
With regard to the date of the disappearance on 3rd May 2007, he remembers that at 22.00/22.15 he received a phone call from the reception, from receptionist Helder, who told him that John Hill was extremely agitated as a child had disappeared and that the GNR had been contacted but had not arrived yet. He added (the receptionist) that he had phoned the GNR post several times and that he had been told that they would arrive when they could but that they were investigating a theft in Odiaxere. The receptionist asked the witness whether he should contact the PSP, to which the witness replied no as this area belongs to the GNR.

Given the circumstances, the witness thought it best to go to the resort to find out more about the situation.

When he arrived at the scene about 10 to 15 minutes later, he immediately went to the reception where the GNR were present, taking a statement from the girl's father.
================================================================================

Doesn't the phone record look doctored to you? 52 seconds to report a missing child but 225 seconds to report a burglary?

[pegasus]

But isn't it amazing that so many seem to have made much the same error.

Helder did also say ... "He knows about the situation that happened at the Ocean Club concerning the disappearance of a little given that on the day in question (03/05/2007) he was on duty and was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant between 09.30 and 22.00 who informed him that the daughter of some guests who were dining there had disappeared."

Now I can understand tourists having no sense of time.
I can understand people in an absolute panic having no sense of times.
But I struggle a bit when I think about workers on shift and particularly workers nearing the end of their shift who don't have a fair idea about approx. times to be 45mins out in their reckoning.

Yes it is strange how the times are so different.
The only way to make the early times (given by several staff) work is to propose that the landline phone company Portugal Telecom had its computer software clock set about 45 minutes fast.

[colombosstogey]

I think Smithman does exist but not at the time they stated. Come on who knows what the time is when your on holiday? I dont even think i used to take my watch. Time slips away from you very fast 30 minutes is gone in a nana second when your in a pub, ordering a drink etc....I think it was later they saw the man with the child about 10.20, that would make sense. It would give someone time to the other end to have had time to move the child. Do you know what time it is? I am writing this and havent got a clue, well i know its around 5.30, deliberatly not looking at the clock at the bottom right hand corner of my computer.

Not only that how many people have watches that GLOW in the dark? It was dark out too. They could have perceived a time they left the pub, stood around chatting gathering stuff and then start walking. Like i said time slips by.

Right i think its about 5.30.

Oh oops it 05.40 lol.

That is the truth i really thought it was 5.30, as I was up at 5.10, coffee was made, computer on, started this straight away. I was out by 10 minutes. I have a coffee machine by the bed so dont have to get up.

We all know the holding of the child was wrong. You hold a child like this when it has sadly died or is unconcious or just been rescued from a building etc. If you are taking a child out of an apartment illegally you would keep it close to your chest for warmth so it wouldnt wake up. BUT THEN IF IT WAS MADDY why wasnt she awake?

The arguement by people is it was a burglary gone wrong and they had distrubed Maddy so they had to take the child away. WHY?

The apartment was dark she would never had recognised them.
They could have easily have said they were there to check on her.
Sadly she was killed and they took her away because..............

If they took her away with the pretense of seeing mummy and daddy she would have been awake and alert.

This Smithman child was not, it was alseep or unconcious.

If the child was unconcious then it was not a burglary gone wrong, it could only be two things.

a. Abduction but planned and chloroform was used.
b. The child was dead and was being removed to bury.

So b. Why move the child if it was a burglary go wrong?

a.. If it was abduction which it could have been if planned right, why move the child through busy or lit strets, when all the person had to do, was go through the front door quietly walk through car park to the left and to a car parked on the old lagos road, or thereabouts away from houses.......

Non of it makes sense.

And if the child had been harmed by the McCanns why move her anywhere......Why raise the alarm? They could have been much cleverer then that.

Pretend all is well.

All go back to apartments.

During the dark take the child away to a point perhaps seen on running or sightseeing.....hide the child etc.

Open quietly the shutter window and open the window. Then raise the alarm much later say one of them woke up to go to toilet felt fresh air etc and found the child missing.

The more i think about this case the more it is confusing and makes no sense.

To cry abduction or missing so quickly just doesnt give time for the child to be hidden. UNLESS the child was already gone much much earlier.

The only other scenario for me is bizarre.

Maddy woke up saw parents gone out again got really mad and went off to hide to scare them. She wondered off either fell into something, was picked up, or was found dead in someones garden and they panicked and hid her.

Perhaps she fell into a trench being dug and no one noticed. Or even into an open grave and some soil fell over her and no one noticed, the scenarios are endless sadly.

Another point did they actually do VISUAL checks? Why leave the door open in the bedroom? I used to put my kids to bed and shut the bedroom door so they would not be disturbed. I would even then walk quietly upstairs and listen at their door. How many people actually GO into the room. Lets face it, you HOLD YOUR BREATH as you just want some peace and quiet lol. Active kids all day your pooped. They soon wake up when we go to sleep lol, well they do dont they. As soon as your head hits the pillow they are awake.

Now if they did have a listening service at the Ocean, they would have simply slid open the patio door a tad, and listened to see if they could hear the children crying. They wouldnt open the door go into the apartment for fear of waking children up. They used this system in Butlins, they would simply listen at the door, what sort of checking is that really?

So did anyone actually check properly? She could have followed them out within minutes of them going out to the Tapas.

IF I had planned an abduction, I would have waited for the family to leave, gone in quickly and out again. Less then minutes, chloroform, child, front door gone.

So back to the Smithman sighting...........the only other option was it was someone the McCann knew and had opportunity to take the child away, or because perhaps the timeline is wrong, it was just Mr Innocent who was taking child home from babysitters, and because say the time was so wrong ignored because the earlier sighting wasnt him?

My head goes round and round with this case lol. Sorry a lot of the above is just me brain storming, you can see how bad my brain is right now lol..... *&*%£

No non of it makes sense, and that is why i have always been sat on the fence.

So without me going through all the receipts i worked out about 10.20 would be a good time for them to see this guy.

Now looking at receipts 9.39 drinks bought (cokes). There is no way kids drink coca cola in 20 minutes after being stuffed with food and men would not drink beer fast either.

OK so they say they wanted to go home early because of a morning flight.

Well it depends on what is a normal time for them to go to bed when they are on holiday.

Leaving a pub after 10pm to get home early would be late for me lol. I would have gone home from the restaurant, made sure the kids stuff was all packed and ready for the morning etc.

I dont think this family were particularly the sort who would bother too much about going to bed early lol.

I think if anything if its your LAST DAY OF HOLIDAY you tend to dawdle and drag your feet, as you want to stay especially as they are staying in their own holiday apartment.

So I think they would have dawdled. I think after several weeks of thinking about timing perception is lost. I honestly think between 10.20 and 10.30 would make more sense.

My grand kids love coco cola but even they never drink it fast it gives them stomach ache.

No i think he existed but around 10.20/10.30.

[Wonderfulspam]

So without me going through all the receipts i worked out about 10.20 would be a good time for them to see this guy.

Now looking at receipts 9.39 drinks bought (cokes). There is no way kids drink coca cola in 20 minutes after being stuffed with food and men would not drink beer fast either.

OK so they say they wanted to go home early because of a morning flight.

Well it depends on what is a normal time for them to go to bed when they are on holiday.

Leaving a pub after 10pm to get home early would be late for me lol. I would have gone home from the restaurant, made sure the kids stuff was all packed and ready for the morning etc.

I dont think this family were particularly the sort who would bother too much about going to bed early lol.

I think if anything if its your LAST DAY OF HOLIDAY you tend to dawdle and drag your feet, as you want to stay especially as they are staying in their own holiday apartment.

So I think they would have dawdled. I think after several weeks of thinking about timing perception is lost. I honestly think between 10.20 and 10.30 would make more sense.

My grand kids love coco cola but even they never drink it fast it gives them stomach ache.

No i think he existed but around 10.20/10.30.

That's some deperate BS right there.

All 3 witnesess give their time of departure as being around 10pm.

[Benice]

The idea that ...... went dashing off to move the body at around the time the alarm was raised is just too daft for words IMO.

How could he know beforehand what time the police were going to arrive?  It could have been 5 minutes after the alarm was raised  for all he knew.  How did he know that some unrelated person would not ring the police on their mobiles as soon as Kate raised the alarm.

No sane person would devise a plan which invoved (a)  having no idea where they would be when the police arrived, (b)  having no idea how long they would be gone - and (c) having no idea how many people would be around to see them - on the way there or on the way back.   
 
This 'theory' is just another example of the misuse of hindsight  IMO.      Facts which are now known but which could not possibly have been known by GM at the time are being used. 

[Wonderfulspam]

The idea that ...... went dashing off to move the body at around the time the alarm was raised is just too daft for words IMO.

How could he know beforehand what time the police were going to arrive?  It could have been 5 minutes after the alarm was raised  for all he knew.  How did he know that some unrelated person would not ring the police on their mobiles as soon as Kate raised the alarm.

No sane person would devise a plan which invoved (a)  having no idea where they would be when the police arrived, (b)  having no idea how long they would be gone - and (c) having no idea how many people would be around to see them - on the way there or on the way back.   
 
This 'theory' is just another example of the misuse of hindsight  IMO.      Facts which are now known but which could not possibly have been known by GM at the time are being used. 

They didn't even bother trying to phone the police, funnily enough.

[pegasus]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR-SANTOS.htm
... at 22.00/22.15 he received a phone call from the reception ...

The call from reception landline to the mobile of VS is at 22:59 in the reception phone records.

HL and VS statements both match on the sequence: 1. reception calls GNR twice, 2. reception calls VS. But both witnesses place this sequence much earlier than is recorded in the landline records provided by landline company "Portugal telecom". I have even considered whether the landline company computer's clock was inaccurate.

BTW the call from a staff member (located at tapas restaurant when he made the call) to receptionist (telling receptionist to phone GNR) was at 22:38 in reception phone records, and was IMO probably from JH mobile.

[misty]

The call from reception landline to the mobile of VS is at 22:59 in the reception phone records.

HL and VS statements both match on the sequence: 1. reception calls GNR twice, 2. reception calls VS. But both witnesses place this sequence much earlier than is recorded in the landline records provided by landline company "Portugal telecom". I have even considered whether the landline company computer's clock was inaccurate.

BTW the call from a staff member (located at tapas restaurant when he made the call) to receptionist (telling receptionist to phone GNR) was at 22:38 in reception phone records, and was IMO probably from JH mobile.

This all proves that human memory cannot be relied upon 100%, so to believe that only Aoife had a totally accurate recollection is improbable.
 I am puzzled, though,  that so many OC staff put their timelines  much earlier than the computerised data confirms. You don't think it has been doctored?

[pegasus]

This all proves that human memory cannot be relied upon 100%, so to believe that only Aoife had a totally accurate recollection is improbable.
 I am puzzled, though,  that so many OC staff put their timelines  much earlier than the computerised data confirms. You don't think it has been doctored?

No way have the landline phone records of OC reception, and GNR Lagos station. been doctored.
But lets imagine that the network clock of the landline phone company was say 30 minutes fast.
That would mean that in the records for OC reception landline, and in the seperate records for GNR Lagos station, (both reliant on the same network clock) the calls listed as 2241 and 2252 would have really been at 2211 and 2222 (hypothetical example).