The Smith sighting revisited.

[Eleanor]

I think I am losing the will to live.  Got to go to bed.

Please try to stay on topic.  It will make my life so much more easy tomorrow.

Thank you all.  It has been a good night tonight, and worth engaging in.

[Benice]

Martin Smith said SY have talked to the family on two separate occasions in an 18 month period before reopening the case with the Portuguese. And he was prime suspect on the CW special and Tannerman buried. Go figure.

Not necessarily  the prime suspect IMO  - didn't DCI Redwood say they needed  to identify that person in order to to rule him in or out?

It could be the case that the man was a local who decided not to get involved because of fear of the PJ and if so  then perhaps  SY were hoping he might be persuaded to come forward as a result of the appeal.


   

[Brietta]

Ask SY.

I don't think SY post here ... but you do and you have an opinion on everything.

Please explain why people who are on record as being unable to identify a man who passed them in darkness, with his features concealed because he was looking downwards, were capable of giving information to enable efits to be made ... over a year after the event?

I hadn't realised how dark that area was until I saw it in Dr Amaral's documentary.

[Benice]

— Adds further that his son TA*** was questioned in Ireland and said that the individual was dressed in a long-sleeved coat/jacket, black in colour, and that the child was barefoot. (Peter Smith)

What's this black item on the sofa?

We've discussed that.    If that was the item of clothing worn by Gerry as he carried Madeleine's dead body through Pdl - it would have reeked with cadaverscent.   That means the settee would also be cross-contaminated   . Eddie showed no interest in that settee.

Also you still haven't explained when, where and how Gerry was able to change his clothing (twice) 

Please clarify.

[pegasus]

Yes it would require changing out of a light brown fleece into a black jacket then afterwards back into the light brown fleece. Also changing out of blue denim jeans into beige/white trousers then back into blue jeans. Also changing  or adding a pyjama top. Five wardrobe changes. A cunning plan indeed.

[John]

The day before Dr Amaral was removed as coordinator he was involved in making final arrangements for Martin Smith to return to Luz to do a recognition.  Does that mean Amaral was also intending that Gerry McCann be there as part of another confrontation?

[slartibartfast]

No - according to the files he was wearing a light brown 'polar' top. 

(I presume that is a translation error or typo and should be 'polo')

Polar = Fleece.

[Mr Gray]

The day before Dr Amaral was removed as coordinator he was involved in making final arrangements for Martin Smith to return to Luz to do a recognition.  Does that mean Amaral was also intending that Gerry McCann be there as part of another confrontation?

As Smith said it was dark, he didn't see the mans face and he wasn't wearing his glasses I think this just about sums up amarals skills as an investigator

[Benice]

Polar = Fleece.

Ahh thankyou.     I didn't know that.

[Benice]

Yes it would require changing out of a light brown fleece into a black jacket then afterwards back into the light brown fleece. Also changing out of blue denim jeans into beige/white trousers then back into blue jeans. Also changing  or adding a pyjama top. Five wardrobe changes. A cunning plan indeed.

Don't forget his footwear too.  Gerry was wearing trainers.  Smithman was wearing shoes.

[pathfinder73]

I don't think SY post here ... but you do and you have an opinion on everything.

Please explain why people who are on record as being unable to identify a man who passed them in darkness, with his features concealed because he was looking downwards, were capable of giving information to enable efits to be made ... over a year after the event?

I hadn't realised how dark that area was until I saw it in Dr Amaral's documentary.

Aoife saw his face.

— It was the first time she saw that man. She does not remember seeing him at any time in any location.
At the time she saw his face but now cannot remember it.

But if she saw his face again......... &%+((£

[Brietta]

Aoife saw his face.

— It was the first time she saw that man. She does not remember seeing him at any time in any location.
At the time she saw his face but now cannot remember it.

But if she saw his face again......... &%+((£

So she was able to supply details for an efit in 2008 but not in 2007 ... Hmmm.

I think it highly likely she would have seen in that period of over a year ... for sake of argument, let's say ... Dr McCann on numerous news bulletins, appeals and MSM photographs ... but she did not at any time identify him as the man she had seen.

Neither did Martin Smith 'identify' by feature ... only by the manner in which Dr McCann looked down when carrying his son off a plane ... and Aoife did not back her father up even on that.

[pathfinder73]

So she was able to supply details for an efit in 2008 but not in 2007 ... Hmmm.

I think it highly likely she would have seen in that period of over a year ... for sake of argument, let's say ... Dr McCann on numerous news bulletins, appeals and MSM photographs ... but she did not at any time identify him as the man she had seen.

Neither did Martin Smith 'identify' by feature ... only by the manner in which Dr McCann looked down when carrying his son off a plane ... and Aoife did not back her father up even on that.

The case was shelved in summer 2008. After Amaral left in Oct 07 his successor was not interested in the Smiths sighting. But SY are and we don't know what additional information they now have from the Smith family.

[John]

As some members have already touched on, it would be interesting to know who actually contributed to the two e-fits currently being touted by SY as being Smithman and the prime suspect.

[sadie]

As some members have already touched on, it would be interesting to know who actually contributed to the two e-fits currently being touted by SY as being Smithman and the prime suspect.

There were a number of people in the Smith party, 8 or 9 in all.

My bet is that the Efita were composed using information from all of them, rather than just from Martin, Peter and Aoife.



At one time, I ran a big training office.  It took the whole of upstairs and was part of a training establishment.  The lower door to the street was always left open.  At lunch time when no-one was there, I always left my handbag at the far end of this large room.
One lunch time, I was downstairs and decided to go back upstairs.  To my horror I was met by a guy coming down from the empty office.  The shock on his face at seeing me registered and I knew he was up to no good.  Instinctively, I touched his middle chest where there was a bulge under his jumper/fleece.  He pushed me out of the way and ran


My wallet with cards, money etc was gone.


The police, upon finding that I thought I could identify him, rushed me with blue light flashing, to Central Birmingham police Station.

There I was shown a big book of mug shots.  I am pretty certain I indentified my man, but because I couldn't be 100% sure I refused to confirm the identification.



What this all leads to, is :
Were The Smiths presented with mug shots galore and tasked to find similar faces  to their now faded memories?
Then the Efit experts proceeded to alter little bits to produce an image that better corresponded to their memories?


Maybe John would know.


Because what strikes me is the virtual impossibility of producing such explicit images from faded memories unless there was a starting pioint.  To produce a good likeness from fresh memories alone, would be nigh impossible, let alone from old memories. 


I think that they must have been shown photos first and built on them ... and quite possibly the images produced by each witness superimposed and an average image produced. 

There are a good few differences but a lot of similarities between the two Efit images, imo