Madeleine McCann new DNA hope: Curtains may hold key to who took her.

[jassi]

These are invariably cases where the DNA has been compared against the ginormous UK DNA database.
May not work quite so well when dealing with those not on that database.

[Carana]

Oh sweet baby Jesus, 7 years later and 10+ million pounds spent and SY are pinning their hopes on a set of curtains ??
If it wasn't so serious it would be almost funny !!

I haven't found any independent corroborating source for this latest factoid. And tabloids copying each other don't count.

[Carana]

These are invariably cases where the DNA has been compared against the ginormous UK DNA database.
May not work quite so well when dealing with those not on that database.

Not in Portugal for the moment, I wouldn't have thought - the law authorising a DNA database of convicted criminals (sentenced for more than 3 years) was only passed in 2008. It's not clear if this means first instance convictions or whether "convictions" have to have passed through a decade of the appeals process. If the latter is the case, I suspect the database may well be nearly empty.

On the other hand, if any DNA led to someone in a UK database, that might indeed be a breakthrough.

[Alice Purjorick]

With the advances in forensic techniques which have taken place since 2007 we have seen an increase in cold cases being reopened and charges being brought against suspects when evidence which has been stored appropriately has been retested.

NSY are carrying out the proper diligences we would expect of a professional law enforcement agency … curtains?? … mibbee so … unidentified hairs from someone’s head?? … mibbee so. 

But isn’t it great there is a real commitment to finding out exactly what happened to Madeleine McCann, which is the object of the whole exercise.

It certainly is. There are of course three ways of looking at this. What might be called The Sherlock Holmes Principle "When one has eliminated the impossible what remains however improbable is the truth", The Donald Rumsfeld Principle " because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns"  and The Slavoj Zizek Principle "the unknown known i.e that which we intentionally refuse to acknowledge that we know"

[jassi]

Not in Portugal for the moment, I wouldn't have thought - the law authorising a DNA database of convicted criminals (sentenced for more than 3 years) was only passed in 2008. It's not clear if this means first instance convictions or whether "convictions" have to have passed through a decade of the appeals process. If the latter is the case, I suspect the database may well be nearly empty.

On the other hand, if any DNA led to someone in a UK database, that might indeed be a breakthrough.

There is obviously a big difference if they only use DNA from convicted. criminals, whereas we use it from anyone who has been arrested, however flimsy the circumstances.

Sorry, I messed up the original post, due to cutting & pasting.

[Carana]

There is obviously a big difference if they only use DNA from however flimsy the circumstances. criminals, whereas we use it from anyone who has been arrested, however flimsy the circumstances.

PT legislation is more complicated. I posted a link or two further up somewhere.

Here's one:
http://www.genewatch.org/sub-566805

[Carana]

It certainly is. There are of course three ways of looking at this. What might be called The Sherlock Holmes Principle "When one has eliminated the impossible what remains however improbable is the truth", The Donald Rumsfeld Principle " because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns"  and The Slavoj Zizek Principle "the unknown known i.e that which we intentionally refuse to acknowledge that we know"

I find that quite witty, even though I expect we could argue as to who we have in mind regarding the last one. ;)

[Carana]

Can we have some examples of these cases which "we have seen" please !

Try googling * "cold case" DNA conviction *. There are loads of them.

[ferryman]

With the advances in forensic techniques which have taken place since 2007 we have seen an increase in cold cases being reopened and charges being brought against suspects when evidence which has been stored appropriately has been retested.

NSY are carrying out the proper diligences we would expect of a professional law enforcement agency … curtains?? … mibbee so … unidentified hairs from someone’s head?? … mibbee so. 

But isn’t it great there is a real commitment to finding out exactly what happened to Madeleine McCann, which is the object of the whole exercise.

Stephen Lawrence ...

[Brietta]

Can we have some examples of these cases which "we have seen" please !

At the moment there is a trial on-going in Edinburgh billed as THE WORLD'S END MURDER TRIAL using DNA from 1977.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/crime/worlds-end-murder-trial-clothing-4518019

A former soldier has been convicted of murdering 16-year-old Elaine Doyle in Greenock in 1986.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-27886592

There have also been cases where criminals have been apprehended when Familial DNA has turned up trumps. http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/familial-dna-searches.html

So for the first time in over seven years the perpetrators of whatever crimes were involved in Madeleine's disappearance might be feeling a bit hot under the collar.

If you and others do not find that a source for satisfaction ... I sure do.

[Alice Purjorick]

I find that quite witty, even though I expect we could argue as to who we have in mind regarding the last one. ;)

I didn't have anyone in mind oddly enough
I just thought the whole thing applicable to this case in a global sense but I thought the Zizek quote in particular was apposite.

[jassi]

At the moment there is a trial on-going in Edinburgh billed as THE WORLD'S END MURDER TRIAL using DNA from 1977.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/crime/worlds-end-murder-trial-clothing-4518019

A former soldier has been convicted of murdering 16-year-old Elaine Doyle in Greenock in 1986.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-27886592

There have also been cases where criminals have been apprehended when Familial DNA has turned up trumps. http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/familial-dna-searches.html

So for the first time in over seven years the perpetrators of whatever crimes were involved in Madeleine's disappearance might be feeling a bit hot under the collar.

If you and others do not find that a source for satisfaction ... I sure do.

Only if the relevant DNA exists on a database.

[Brietta]

It certainly is. There are of course three ways of looking at this. What might be called The Sherlock Holmes Principle "When one has eliminated the impossible what remains however improbable is the truth", The Donald Rumsfeld Principle " because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns"  and The Slavoj Zizek Principle "the unknown known i.e that which we intentionally refuse to acknowledge that we know"

How esoteric and how inscrutable … however … if it keeps you happy … who am I …

[jassi]

How esoteric and how inscrutable … however … if it keeps you happy … who am I …

Exactly   

[Carana]

"But elsewhere, websites dedicated to the analysis of police files claim the curtains were never collected, tested or indeed even kept."

Who wrote that article in the Portugal Resident... and which sites were they consulting? Why didn't the journalist check the files for him/herself?

The living-room curtains were most definitely sent for analysis and the FSS found absolutely nothing of significance.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BLOOD.htm

Lowe report:
286A/2007-CRL 16 & 16B Two blue curtains and one white curtain
286B/2007-CRL 1 One white section of a curtain

These curtains were analysed for traces of blood, semen and saliva, none of which were detected. The hem of one of the blue curtains (16) was swabbed to collect any cellular material that might exist. An incomplete, inconclusive DNA result consisting only of two unconfirmed DNA components was obtained. In my opinion the result is not adequate for comparison purposes. The sample was submitted for LCN analysis.

An incomplete, low-level DNA result, comprising only some DNA components, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material recovered from the hem of one the curtains. In my opinion, this result contained information too meagre to permit a meaningful interpretation.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm

However, I have found no trace whatsoever that the bedroom curtains were ever bagged, let alone analysed.