Madeleine McCann new DNA hope: Curtains may hold key to who took her.

[Brietta]

Only if the relevant DNA exists on a database.

Uh Hu ... and if there is a previously unidentified hair in store ... and there is a suspect whose hair is a DNA match?

There was no DNA database involved in either the World's End Murder trial ... nor in the Elaine Doyle Murder trial.

[jassi]

Uh Hu ... and if there is a previously unidentified hair in store ... and there is a suspect whose hair is a DNA match?

There was no DNA database involved in either the World's End Murder trial ... nor in the Elaine Doyle Murder trial.

Then that DNA will be on a database.

[ferryman]

"But elsewhere, websites dedicated to the analysis of police files claim the curtains were never collected, tested or indeed even kept."

Who wrote that article in the Portugal Resident... and which sites were they consulting? Why didn't the journalist check the files for him/herself?

The living-room curtains were most definitely sent for analysis and the FSS found absolutely nothing of significance.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BLOOD.htm

Lowe report:
286A/2007-CRL 16 & 16B Two blue curtains and one white curtain
286B/2007-CRL 1 One white section of a curtain

These curtains were analysed for traces of blood, semen and saliva, none of which were detected. The hem of one of the blue curtains (16) was swabbed to collect any cellular material that might exist. An incomplete, inconclusive DNA result consisting only of two unconfirmed DNA components was obtained. In my opinion the result is not adequate for comparison purposes. The sample was submitted for LCN analysis.

An incomplete, low-level DNA result, comprising only some DNA components, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material recovered from the hem of one the curtains. In my opinion, this result contained information too meagre to permit a meaningful interpretation.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm

However, I have found no trace whatsoever that the bedroom curtains were ever bagged, let alone analysed.

Of course the curtains were sent because Keela alerted to them.

Ooops ....

[Carana]

Only if the relevant DNA exists on a database.

It would be perhaps faster to trace if a suspect's DNA is already on a database, but that's not the only possibility. Suspects or even a broad range of people known to have been in the vicinity of a crime can be requested (or ordered) to provide a mouth swab for DNA.

That said, even a DNA match doesn't necessarily link an individual to a crime. There could be lots of innocent reasons for someone's DNA being in 5A...

[Alice Purjorick]

How esoteric and how inscrutable … however … if it keeps you happy … who am I …

Esoteric possibly but inscrutable definitely not. Perfectly "scrutable" in my 'umble opinion Master Copperfield.
When NSY have eliminated all that which is impossible a la SH and gone through Rumsfeld's principle and have come to terms with anything they don't like as Zizek quotes it will be interesting to see who is last man* standing as it were. It is to be hoped The Met will be that diligent.

* man in the global sense rather than any specific man.
I do so find these little footnotes help to stop debate about what hasn't been said don't you?

[ferryman]

It would be perhaps faster to trace if a suspect's DNA is already on a database, but that's not the only possibility. Suspects or even a broad range of people known to have been in the vicinity of a crime can be requested (or ordered) to provide a mouth swab for DNA.

That said, even a DNA match doesn't necessarily link an individual to a crime. There could be lots of innocent reasons for someone's DNA being in 5A...

True.  You would expect to find DNA of cleaners, for example.

You would also need to rule out other (legitimate) visitors to the apartment.

But if you could tie DNA to a suspect established as in the vicinity at the time, that would be quite something ...

[jassi]

It would be perhaps faster to trace if a suspect's DNA is already on a database, but that's not the only possibility. Suspects or even a broad range of people known to have been in the vicinity of a crime can be requested (or ordered) to provide a mouth swab for DNA.

That said, even a DNA match doesn't necessarily link an individual to a crime. There could be lots of innocent reasons for someone's DNA being in 5A...

Would that be true in Portugal, I wonder?

[Carana]

Of course the curtains were sent because Keela alerted to them.

Ooops ....

Yes, items from the initial sweep went to the PT lab (hairs and a bit of the bedcover of the bed near the window); the majority of items / swabs subsequently collected and sent for analysis were where Keela alerted (but that was 3 months after the fact and several rentals later).

I've found nothing to suggest that the curtains of the bedroom were bagged (nor the bed linen...).

The only hope seems to be in the hairs.

Out of the 100+ found in the presumed potential passageways, only 1 could be positively matched by nuclear DNA... the others didn't have sufficient material. If technology has moved on since then and nuclear DNA can be extracted from hair shafts (and I've read conflicting reports on that), then retesting them might provide more information.

[jassi]

One has to hope that this isn't the material that was reported to be  lost or destroyed.

[Carana]

Would that be true in Portugal, I wonder?

Voluntary swabs have been taken in this case in Portugal, but I'm not sure how it works if someone chooses not to. I haven't delved into that yet.

Until less than a decade ago, fingerprints seemed to be the main ID trace for suspects in some countries. DNA is a sensitive topic and hasn't been easy to legislate. Until there was legislation, there was no point in having a database.

I can remember one case in the UK in which people were invited to give mouth swabs (although the details of the case escape me for the moment) and at least one recent one in France. I think that there was also an older case, although I'm no longer sure of the details of that one.

The recent one in France was a rape case, so they had the DNA of the creep to compare it to.

[Carana]

One has to hope that this isn't the material that was reported to be  lost or destroyed.

What are you referring to? Amaral's remark on a TV show that the hairs from the Scenic had probably all been destroyed? They weren't. If he'd checked the files, he might have noticed that there was a receipt slip signed by one of his own officers.

The hairs from 5A went to the PT lab (May). The hair fragments from the Scenic went to the FSS (August) and were returned to PT.

[pathfinder73]

Amaral said the hairs are in Portugal.

 hair was also found. Hair which the laboratory says, from its coloration, which is how this used to be done in the old days, by comparing the coloration, if it belonged to the person or not. Nowadays it is possible to perform, and then it was already possible, to perform DNA tests on hair. Some say it’s only possible to identify the DNA profile with the root of the hair, the English lab says it’s not possible because these have no root, therefore they don’t perform the test. That hair is in Portugal, it was returned to Portugal. They are next to the process. It’s simple: the Public Ministry, that has the investigation, should take that hair and send it to a lab in Europe or elsewhere, where that type of test is done, without the need for the root of the hair.”

Q: That was never done?

“That was never done. It was never done and what is said is that there may have been a contamination. But we end up not knowing whether that hair belongs to Madeleine McCann or not. That’s another doubt to discuss, to clarify. Now, there cannot be a piece of evidence while we’re here talking about the man who died under the tractor and quit his job a month before because there was 5 euro missing –“

[sadie]

Of course the curtains were sent because Keela alerted to them.

Ooops ....

Please tell me you are joking ferryman

[pathfinder73]

Please tell me you are joking ferryman

It's no joke Sadie.

19.19 The dog "marked" an area of tiles in the living room, next to the window and behind the sofa.

19.20 The dog "marked" the lower part of the left white coloured curtain of the window behind the sofa.

[Carana]

Amaral said the hairs are in Portugal.

 hair was also found. Hair which the laboratory says, from its coloration, which is how this used to be done in the old days, by comparing the coloration, if it belonged to the person or not. Nowadays it is possible to perform, and then it was already possible, to perform DNA tests on hair. Some say it’s only possible to identify the DNA profile with the root of the hair, the English lab says it’s not possible because these have no root, therefore they don’t perform the test. That hair is in Portugal, it was returned to Portugal. They are next to the process. It’s simple: the Public Ministry, that has the investigation, should take that hair and send it to a lab in Europe or elsewhere, where that type of test is done, without the need for the root of the hair.”

Q: That was never done?

“That was never done. It was never done and what is said is that there may have been a contamination. But we end up not knowing whether that hair belongs to Madeleine McCann or not. That’s another doubt to discuss, to clarify. Now, there cannot be a piece of evidence while we’re here talking about the man who died under the tractor and quit his job a month before because there was 5 euro missing –“

That's not what he originally said in a TV show. ;)