Madeleine McCann new DNA hope: Curtains may hold key to who took her.

[jassi]

IIRC, from Portuguese media reports, SY requested DNA samples from "suspects" and this was denied by the judge. With this refusal, SY wanted to obtain DNA by underhanded methods without the knowledge or consent of the persons involved which is manifestly illegal here in Portugal.

Yeah, that sounds like SY.

[Carana]

IIRC, from Portuguese media reports, SY requested DNA samples from "suspects" and this was denied by the judge. With this refusal, SY wanted to obtain DNA by underhanded methods without the knowledge or consent of the persons involved which is manifestly illegal here in Portugal.

According to whom?

[Montclair]

According to whom?

Please reread my modified post. I added "allegedly" as this came from the Portuguese press but I would like to add from someone who has very good sources.

[Carana]

So the police want to look at the blood and saliva samples from the apartment 5A and the boot of a car according  to Correio da Manhã. AFAIK, the police only took samples from the McCanns' hire car. Very interesting!

That's not my understanding of that article (misleading though it is).

Not sure where to start on that.

[Montclair]

That's not my understanding of that article (misleading though it is).

Not sure where to start on that.

Very poor translation of the article. Anyway, how can SY ask for retesting on the bedroom curtains when no forensic testing was ever done on these curtains AFAIK.

[Alice Purjorick]

Perhaps I did not make myself clear; when I chose to say 'inscrutable' it was to illustrate your post was totally unfathomable to me ... not having been blessed with a superior intellect such as yours.

I believe Carana understood the point from his/her posted reply.

[Carana]

Very poor translation of the article. Anyway, how can SY ask for retesting on the bedroom curtains when no forensic testing was ever done on these curtains AFAIK.

There is nothing in the files to say that the bedroom curtains were ever bagged in the first place, let alone tested by the INML.

I have no idea where this "25 samples of blood and saliva" idea came from with the misleading phrasing that they came from 5A and the car... unless...

5- Total of the samples studied:

Since May 2007, the following samples were analysed in the GENETIC AND BIOLOGICAL FORENSIC SERVICES offices of the North, Central e South Delegations of the Instituto Nacional of Medicina Legal:

- 25 reference samples.
- 447 vestigios, comprising:
>> 444 hairs, of which 432 were human;
>> 1 mark on a counterpane;
>> 2 objects from a car boot.

Of the 432 human hairs (roots and/or stems), 315 provided the results reflected in Table 2.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm

That was the TOTALITY of the samples from the investigation submitted to the INML, not just from 5A and the Scenic. It includes all the hairs sent in, a few blood traces found in Burgau, on a wall in PdL and possibly elsewhere.

There never was any forensically verified blood in 5A, nor in the Scenic.

If that extract is what the journo is basing his scoop on, has the journo assumed that 25 REFERENCE samples from mouth swabs are somehow suspicious? PT destroys samples once the profile has been established... so there's nothing left to retest anyway.

[Carana]

Groundhog day...

The Express is now repeating CdaM.

They met with the bosses of Portugal’s Institute of Legal Medicine and Forensic Sciences in Coimbra, two hours drive north of Lisbon, where most of the material, also said to include 25 blood and saliva samples, is held.

Aside from the possible inclusion of what is assumed to be Madeleine's heel-prick blood sample (analysed in the UK), saliva-related reference samples would be the mouth swabs.

The only saliva sample from 5A was from the previous occupants' baby boy. And that wasn't a reference sample as it took ages to even establish who that DNA result corresponded to. And that "stain" is listed separately, so it's not part of the "25".

[Montclair]

Groundhog day...

The Express is now repeating CdaM.

They met with the bosses of Portugal’s Institute of Legal Medicine and Forensic Sciences in Coimbra, two hours drive north of Lisbon, where most of the material, also said to include 25 blood and saliva samples, is held.

Aside from the possible inclusion of what is assumed to be Madeleine's heel-prick blood sample (analysed in the UK), saliva-related reference samples would be the mouth swabs.

The only saliva sample from 5A was from the previous occupants' baby boy. And that wasn't a reference sample as it took ages to even establish who that DNA result corresponded to. And that "stain" is listed separately, so it's not part of the "25".

What do you expect from MSM these days. It's all copy and paste. The Portuguese papers copy the British press and vice versa.

[Carana]

What do you expect from MSM these days. It's all copy and paste. The Portuguese papers copy the British press and vice versa.

I agree, but even you appear to have been taken in by that CdaM article for a while.

You'd said:
So the police want to look at the blood and saliva samples from the apartment 5A and the boot of a car according  to Correio da Manhã. AFAIK, the police only took samples from the McCanns' hire car. Very interesting!

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5498.msg196282#msg196282

[Brietta]

Groundhog day...

The Express is now repeating CdaM.

They met with the bosses of Portugal’s Institute of Legal Medicine and Forensic Sciences in Coimbra, two hours drive north of Lisbon, where most of the material, also said to include 25 blood and saliva samples, is held.

Aside from the possible inclusion of what is assumed to be Madeleine's heel-prick blood sample (analysed in the UK), saliva-related reference samples would be the mouth swabs.

The only saliva sample from 5A was from the previous occupants' baby boy. And that wasn't a reference sample as it took ages to even establish who that DNA result corresponded to. And that "stain" is listed separately, so it's not part of the "25".

Groundhog day indeed.

I think it would be sensible not to rely on sources such as Correio da Manha for information … might be an idea to wait for official notification about what is going on … it avoids headlines such as the 100% DNA.

>>snip<<
Portuguese forensic experts analysed 444 hair strands they believed could hold the key to the three-year-old disappearance in May 2007.

They found 432 were human and 12 non-human. They were unable to DNA-match 98 of them and only obtained partial results from 19 of them, the Portuguese daily newspaper Correio da Manha reported.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/hair-strands-during-original-madeleine-mccann-investigation-never-dnamatched-9825210.html

[xtina]

wasn't it that the markers found  in Britain 15 would have been enough....but not in Portugal....




http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/528865/Madeleine-McCann-human-hairs-hunt-Portugal

Madeleine McCann: Untested human hairs provide new hope in police hunt for DNA clues

BRITISH detectives probing the Madeleine McCann disappearance in Portugal want to retest hairs after it was found previous DNA tests carried out during the original investigation were incomplete.




Madeleine McCann who went missing in 2007Police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann want to DNA test hairs[AP]

Nearly 100 strands of hair tested during the original Madeleine McCann investigation were never DNA-matched, it emerged today.

Portuguese forensic experts analysed 444 hair strands they believed could hold the key to the youngster’s May 3 2007 disappearance.

They found 432 were human and 12 non-human. They were unable to DNA-match 98 of them and only obtained partial results from 19 of them, Portuguese daily Correio da Manha reported.

MADELEINE MCCANN: THE SEARCH CONTINUES

British detectives probing Madeleine McCann’s disappearance want to retest some of the hairs as well as curtains hanging in the Algarve apartment where she vanished.

Scotland Yard are expected to apply for permission in a sixth international letter of request to take the samples from a Portuguese lab so experts can look at them in the UK.

The fifth letter, understood to contain a request to reinterview three new suspects quizzed in the summer, has yet to be answered by new Madeleine McCann prosecutor Ines Sequeira.

Related articles
 Maddie breakthrough: Curtains may hold DNA clue in hunt for Madeleine McCann
 Hope for Maddie? The 3 women who could solve riddle of Madeleine McCann's disappearance
 Has Madeleine McCann finally been found in Spain? Police investigate new sighting
A Met Police team led by DCI Andy Redwood announced their wish to look again at forensic material collected in the early days of the Madeleine McCann investigation during a visit to the university town of Coimbra earlier this month.

They met with the bosses of Portugal’s Institute of Legal Medicine and Forensic Sciences in Coimbra, two hours drive north of Lisbon, where most of the material, also said to include 25 blood and saliva samples, is held.

Institute president Francisco Brizida, said afterwards: “I have the certainty they went away very happy.”

“The tonic of the meeting was about the possibility of the tests on samples collected in 2007 being re-done.

“The British police wanted clarification on the examinations the institute had carried out during the early stages of the inquiry in the areas of genetics and biology.

“We talked about non-identified material that was collected in Madeleine’s apartment.

“I can’t say for sure new DNA tests that didn’t yield a conclusive result in 2007 could now yield an objective result.

“But technology nowadays allows us to go further than years ago in areas like genetic markers.

“Several possibilities are open. One could be that British police do the tests in Britain with British technology and another that the institute does them.

“But that’s an area in which the institute does not have the last word. There’s a situation of judicial cooperation and a new international letter of request would be necessary.

[Carana]

Please reread my modified post. I added "allegedly" as this came from the Portuguese press but I would like to add from someone who has very good sources.

Where was this article written and who wrote it?

[pathfinder73]

They can test without root now.

At the beginning of this month of August a curtain was collected from the living room of the apartment including a portion from the same pair of curtains, materials that were sent to England with other articles/objects for subjection to examination.



RESULTS

1- Morphology analysis of the hairs

All hairs received for analysis were subjected to macro- and microscopic characterisation, with the majority of those having the root being in a telogenic phase.
[Ref: https://www.promega.com/geneticidproc/e ... c/ab20.pdf]

Relating to Apartment no. 5-A

- Envelope No. 1 - "recovered from the floor at the entrance to the children's bedroom" 25 hairs with root; 4 hairs only stem; 3 hairs non-human.

- Envelope No. 2 - "recovered from the floor next to the bed from which the child disappeared" 3 hairs with root; 25 hairs only stem.

- Envelope No. 3 - "recovered from the top of the bed from which the child disappeared" 2 hairs with root; 2 hairs only stem.

- Envelope No. 4 - " recovered from the floor next to the bed that was next to the window in the children's bedroom" ll hairs with root; 4 hairs only stem.

- Envelope no. 6 - "recovered from the floor of the lounge" 26 hairs with root; 4 hairs only stem; l hair non-human.

- Envelope no. 7 - "recovered from the entrance hall at the front door of the apartment" 44 hairs with root; 8 hairs only stem; 6 hairs non-human.

 - Mitochondrial DNA study

- Mitochondrial DNA was obtained from 194 vestiges - 1 spot and 193 hairs (roots and/or stems) of the 246 analysed. It was not possible to obtain results from 52 hairs, 31 of which were recovered in the apartment.

Mitochondrial DNA profiles of the vestiges

CONCLUSIONS


1st- The macro- and microscopic analysis of 257 hairs revealed 245 human and 12 non-human.

8th- Of the 245 hairs analysed, no results were obtained from 52.

National Institute of Legal Medicine, 9 July 2007.
[Titles, names and signatures of signatories to the report]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm

[Brietta]

They can test without root now.

At the beginning of this month of August a curtain was collected from the living room of the apartment including a portion from the same pair of curtains, materials that were sent to England with other articles/objects for subjection to examination.



RESULTS

1- Morphology analysis of the hairs

All hairs received for analysis were subjected to macro- and microscopic characterisation, with the majority of those having the root being in a telogenic phase.
[Ref: https://www.promega.com/geneticidproc/e ... c/ab20.pdf]

Relating to Apartment no. 5-A

- Envelope No. 1 - "recovered from the floor at the entrance to the children's bedroom" 25 hairs with root; 4 hairs only stem; 3 hairs non-human.

- Envelope No. 2 - "recovered from the floor next to the bed from which the child disappeared" 3 hairs with root; 25 hairs only stem.

- Envelope No. 3 - "recovered from the top of the bed from which the child disappeared" 2 hairs with root; 2 hairs only stem.

- Envelope No. 4 - " recovered from the floor next to the bed that was next to the window in the children's bedroom" ll hairs with root; 4 hairs only stem.

- Envelope no. 6 - "recovered from the floor of the lounge" 26 hairs with root; 4 hairs only stem; l hair non-human.

- Envelope no. 7 - "recovered from the entrance hall at the front door of the apartment" 44 hairs with root; 8 hairs only stem; 6 hairs non-human.

 - Mitochondrial DNA study

- Mitochondrial DNA was obtained from 194 vestiges - 1 spot and 193 hairs (roots and/or stems) of the 246 analysed. It was not possible to obtain results from 52 hairs, 31 of which were recovered in the apartment.

Mitochondrial DNA profiles of the vestiges

CONCLUSIONS


1st- The macro- and microscopic analysis of 257 hairs revealed 245 human and 12 non-human.

8th- Of the 245 hairs analysed, no results were obtained from 52.

National Institute of Legal Medicine, 9 July 2007.
[Titles, names and signatures of signatories to the report]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm

The crime occurred in May.

Rather remiss to be collecting forensics in August from a crime scene which had been released and other families allowed to holiday in during the intervening period?

Know what ... I doubt if SY are particularly interested in those curtains ... probably be as well to ignore what CdM are currently selling newspapers with ... and get it straight from the horse's mouth, whenever that may be.