Madeleine McCann new DNA hope: Curtains may hold key to who took her.

[Carana]

What a totally misleading statement.     Eddie did not alert in the car and Amaral shows his complete ignorance of the fact that Eddie - like Keela, would also alert to blood - from a dead or living person.  He appears to be under the impression that Eddie only alerted to cadaverscent.   Such an abysmal lack of knowledge of the facts -  in an area of investigation which he claimed to be of major importance in the case is shameful IMO.   

I think that this is one of my favourite snippets:


We confidently wait for the evaluation reports from FSS. A few days after the samples are sent, we are informed that the DNA of the blood found in the boot of the McCanns’ car shows a significant match – 50% – with Gerald’s, which means that it is definitely the blood of one of his children.

 - No blood was found. The only indicator was that Keela had reacted.

- His book is supposed to be based on the publicly available files. The forensic report doesn't state that 50% of the DNA result matched Gerry's. That may be the case, but it's not in the files and may be hearsay.

- Let's assume for the moment that he's correct on that. But there is then a giant leap into fuzzy logic: it must therefore be the blood of one of his children.

You couldn't make it up... except that... well, never mind.

[pathfinder73]

What a totally misleading statement.     Eddie did not alert in the car and Amaral shows his complete ignorance of the fact that Eddie - like Keela, would also alert to blood - from a dead or living person.  He appears to be under the impression that Eddie only alerted to cadaverscent.   Such an abysmal lack of knowledge of the facts -  in an area of investigation which he claimed to be of major importance in the case is shameful IMO.   

The EVRD alerted to scent coming out from the car. There was no need for Eddie to go inside the car and alert.

"My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant. This does not however suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with corroborating evidence." (MG)

[Carana]

But they will be interested in testing the car boot hairs.

I have no problem with that.

If any hairs can be conclusively proven to have been shed post-mortem, then that might take the investigation in a different direction.

If there are no signs of post-mortem shedding, then that would be a box to tick. There presumably weren't any at the time of the Palmer report as he'd presumably have noticed by examining them under a microscope.

[Benice]

The EVRD alerted to scent coming out from the car. There was no need for Eddie to go inside the car and alert.

"My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant. This does not however suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with corroborating evidence." (MG)

The scent from the car was from the keyfob which was inside the driver's door compartment.  Keela also alerted to the keyfob.    DNA on the keyfob was identified as Gerry's.    Gerry is alive and kicking.  Therefore it was a blood detection.

[pathfinder73]

I have no problem with that.

If any hairs can be conclusively proven to have been shed post-mortem, then that might take the investigation in a different direction.

If there are no signs of post-mortem shedding, then that would be a box to tick. There presumably weren't any at the time of the Palmer report as he'd presumably have noticed by examining them under a microscope.

The Palmer report is a joke. It could be her hair in the car. Well that's really helpful.

Conclusion
In the objects recovered from the Scenic, there were around 15 blonde/fair hairs similar to the reference hairs from SJM2, 4 and 5. However, as it was not possible to do solid [definitive] or significant [forensically meaningful] tests it is not possible for me to determine if, or not, these could have been from Madeleine McCann.

[pathfinder73]

The scent from the car was from the keyfob which was inside the driver's door compartment.  Keela also alerted to the keyfob.    DNA on the keyfob was identified as Gerry's.    Gerry is alive and kicking.  Therefore it was a blood detection.

Hmm let me think. Eddie was chasing that scent a good distance away from the car. Keela gets in real close to freeze alert to blood. So do I listen to Martin Grime's professional opinion about Eddie's alerts or yours?

[ferryman]

The Palmer report is a joke. It could be her hair in the car. Well that's really helpful.

Conclusion
In the objects recovered from the Scenic, there were around 15 blonde/fair hairs similar to the reference hairs from SJM2, 4 and 5. However, as it was not possible to do solid [definitive] or significant [forensically meaningful] tests it is not possible for me to determine if, or not, these could have been from Madeleine McCann.

Joke?

He produced the best results possible with the material he was presented with.

[Carana]

The Palmer report is a joke. It could be her hair in the car. Well that's really helpful.

Conclusion
In the objects recovered from the Scenic, there were around 15 blonde/fair hairs similar to the reference hairs from SJM2, 4 and 5. However, as it was not possible to do solid [definitive] or significant [forensically meaningful] tests it is not possible for me to determine if, or not, these could have been from Madeleine McCann.

The fragments were too short even for mtDNA testing. Not that would have been particularly helpful as Kate and the twins would also have the same haplotype, as would Kate's mum who may have been in the car at some point.

I don't see the issue about whether any of the hairs were hers or not anyway. Hairs could have been on any of the belongings transported in the car when they moved to the villa, or even before if the kids had played with one of her toys or worn a cardigan of hers, for example.

The only relevance would be if any of the hairs had shown any sign of post-morten shedding, which they clearly didn't as Palmer would have examined them under a microscope and Corte-Real, the head of the INML, also examined them.

It would have been a different issue if hairs (with or without any sign of post-mortem shedding) had been found in a location with no known direct or indirect association with her.

[Eleanor]

Didn't the twins have their hair cut at some point?

[Carana]

Didn't the twins have their hair cut at some point?

Yes, and anyone in that car could have had a fringe trimmed with a hair stuck on clothing. They're so short, I've seen split ends longer than some of those fragments.

[jassi]

The arguments put forward in this thread just go to demonstrate how unhelpful sophisticated forensics can be in solving certain crimes.

[Eleanor]

The arguments put forward in this thread just go to demonstrate how unhelpful sophisticated forensics can be in solving certain crimes.

This is true.

[Carana]

The arguments put forward in this thread just go to demonstrate how unhelpful sophisticated forensics can be in solving certain crimes.

Why do you say that?

[jassi]

Why do you say that?

Simply because, so far,  none of the forensic tests applied have produced a lead to the perpetrator.
Obviously forensics play an important role in modern crime solving, but do not always come up with the goods.

[ferryman]

Simply because, so far,  none of the forensic tests applied have produced a lead to the perpetrator.
Obviously forensics play an important role in modern crime solving, but do not always come up with the goods.

Occasion is the context.

Modern forensics (frequently) have much to offer, but not always.

On all balances, we should welcome modern forensics and be glad when they unlock the key to solving crime.