Did the McCann"s sudden flight from Portugal engender suspicion?

[Carana]

The point at issue was whether one believes it is a matter for a police force that does not have primacy to report matters to the press it sees as deficient in the force that does have primacy rather than speak to them directly irrespective of whether they pay attention or not.

They did try to explain issues to the other police force. They didn't pay attention.

If the press couldn't be trusted, caution seems to have been the order of the day.

My personal reaction was that I found it unfair that they knew and didn't say anything. Then, when I stood back, I could understand that it was an awkward situation.

The release of the files has enabled anyone wishing to do so to verify for themselves... however few people have done so and prefer to regurgitate long-discounted myths.

And certain people, particularly those of a certain "research group" who couldn't research themselves out of a paper bag (and which loosely includes a certain person, who claims to be familiar with the files yet who persists in presenting these myths in an easily digestible audiovisual form for the intellectually impaired, or for those who simply haven't had time to catch up on developments since the early days) haven't helped at all in the quest for any objective "truth" which presumably precedes any form of justice.

[Alice Purjorick]

They did try to explain issues to the other police force. They didn't pay attention.

If the press couldn't be trusted, caution seems to have been the order of the day.

My personal reaction was that I found it unfair that they knew and didn't say anything. Then, when I stood back, I could understand that it was an awkward situation.

The release of the files has enabled anyone wishing to do so to verify for themselves... however few people have done so and prefer to regurgitate long-discounted myths.

And certain people, particularly those of a certain "research group" who couldn't research themselves out of a paper bag (and which loosely includes a certain person, who claims to be familiar with the files yet who persists in presenting these myths in an easily digestible audiovisual form for the intellectually impaired, or for those who simply haven't had time to catch up on developments since the early days) haven't helped at all in the quest for any objective "truth" which presumably precedes any form of justice.

I do not follow as I don't know to whom you refer.

[Mr Gray]

The point at issue was whether one believes it is a matter for a police force that does not have primacy to report matters to the press it sees as deficient in the force that does have primacy rather than speak to them directly irrespective of whether they pay attention or not.

amaral started the ball rolling by criticising the uk police...

[pathfinder73]

I think  the friends and family would have gone along with the parents decision to try to resume normal life for the sake of the twins ...

When has it ever been the norm for the parents of a missing child to institute and organise their own search and investigation because the authorities were not doing so?

So who would have suspected a thing if that had not occurred?

If she can't be found the ones behind it can do what they like. But overconfidence is Smithman's weakness. He's already given the sighting time away to get his alibi and is a spitting image of the suppressed efit. They'll be looking closely at his movements and words.

[Carew]

What is your reason for asking?

You seem otherwise able to spell...........It seemed a purposeful mis-spelling of "truth".
Why was that ?

[Alice Purjorick]

amaral started the ball rolling by criticising the uk police...

The police force employing Dr Amaral had primacy so in that sense it is different.
I just happen to believe that as matter of principle it is poor procedure for one police force to brief the press against another during the course of an investigation who ever they are.
What was the point of your comment? to make a snide remark about Dr Amaral or to suggest that because he behaved in a less than satisfactory manner that constitutes carte blanche for the English police force to behave in like manner?

[Carew]

Known in the medical profession as Janet Street-Porter by proxy syndrome.

Ah right!.........Truth Seekers all speak as if they come from the Saaarf-East of England ?

[Alice Purjorick]

Ah right!.........Truth Seekers all speak as if they come from the Saaarf-East of England ?

Oh yes ! they also have special greetings by which they recognise each other which greeting allows them to identify infidels and the uninitiated.

[Brietta]

You seem otherwise able to spell...........It seemed a purposeful mis-spelling of "truth".
Why was that ?

Hmmm ... thank you for your assumption I seem to be capable of spelling ... without the little squiggly red underline thingy who knows?... although why you seem to be hung up on my syntax is a bit of a mystery ... but there you are.

Just as the troof seems to be that you and I seem to be in some disagreement about when it would have been appropriate for the McCann family to return to Rothley.

Why on earth should their return have engendered 'suspicion' ... I would have thought the 'arguido' tag might have contributed to that.

[Carew]

Hmmm ... thank you for your assumption I seem to be capable of spelling ... without the little squiggly red underline thingy who knows?... although why you seem to be hung up on my syntax is a bit of a mystery ... but there you are.

Just as the troof seems to be that you and I seem to be in some disagreement about when it would have been appropriate for the McCann family to return to Rothley.

Why on earth should their return have engendered 'suspicion' ... I would have thought the 'arguido' tag might have contributed to that.

I haven`t given any opinion on when it would have been appropriate for the McCann family to return to Rothley.

I didn`t feel that the thread topic required that.

Any post I made would have been to counter the assumption that a guilty person would have maintained a low profile, departing at the earliest opportunity to lead a quiet life at home with the remaining children.

I don`t think such an assumption can be made.

[Benice]

Hmmm ... thank you for your assumption I seem to be capable of spelling ... without the little squiggly red underline thingy who knows?... although why you seem to be hung up on my syntax is a bit of a mystery ... but there you are.

Just as the troof seems to be that you and I seem to be in some disagreement about when it would have been appropriate for the McCann family to return to Rothley.

Why on earth should their return have engendered 'suspicion' ... I would have thought the 'arguido' tag might have contributed to that.

IMO everything they did on their return is the complete opposite of how guilty people would have behaved.

They did everything in their power to keep Madeleine's profile as high as possible and never stopped in their quest to have the case re- investigated by SY.   Those are not the actions of guilty people.

And would The McCanns  friends have stood by and watched them taking such dangerous courses of action - knowing that they were guilty - and that they had been their accomplices?    Not a chance IMO.    As it happened -  they also did the opposite of guilty people  -  and donated their libel compensation to the fund to help the McCanns to carry on maintaining attention on this case.    Guilty people would have wanted as little attention as possible - from any quarter.

Anyone who claims that any of the above is proof of  'suspicious' behaviour is actually just proving how some sceptics can convince themselves that black is actually white IMO.

 

[Alfred R Jones]

Is it not uncommon then for criminals to choose to keep a high profile and to actively campaign to have their crimes reinvestigated?

[ferryman]

As far as the progress of the investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance is concerned, I don’t think there would have been much difference, too many elementary mistakes had been made for any more progress towards finding her to be made.

As far as the investigation into Madeleine’s parents is concerned … I do not think that would have happened.

The ‘honour’ of the PJ would not have been allegedly impugned.

The dogs would not have been brought in and allegedly alerted.

The hire car would not have been hired.

The second mistaken Smith sighting would not have occurred.

The previous three statements would have meant that the McCanns would not have been made arguidos.

It is possible Dr Amaral might not have been removed from the case when he was and he would not have written his book or made his documentary.

… and no-one would be trying to find out what happened to Madeleine now.

Having thought about it, I'm not sure I agree. 

We know that the McCanns were (in certain quarters!) irrationally excoriated for "fleeing from justice" leaving Portugal when they did.  Had they left earlier, they'd have been excoriated all the more fiercely. 

Never forget that Mark Harrison (thank goodness!) was only ever interested in solving the mystery of what happened to Madeleine; and recommended bringing in the dogs because he saw them as a valuable tool to contributing to that end.  I'm certain he'd have recommended bringing them in whether the McCanns were there or not. 

I think Grime would have pursued his separate agenda come what may; and all bar two of the inspections (at the villa and at the gym, because there would have been no clothes to inspect) would have gone ahead.

Remember that Harrison only ever recommended inspection of all vehicles owned or driven by Murat and I'm pretty certain he'd still have made the same recommendation.

Harrison also only ever recommended inspections in places where Madeleine either had been or conceivably might have been. 

Aside from an askew reference where Harrison appears to touch his forelock and take orders from others (unspecified) about inspections in places Madeleine never lived in or went near, Harrison  had nothing to do with those inspections, and conspicuously omitted reference to UK involvement in them in his summary of all searches.  So a search at the villa never figured in Harrison's plans; neither of any vehicle other than those driven or owned by Murat.

I think it likely that 7 of the 8 cars besides those belonging to Murat (excluding the Renault scenic) would still have made it in, perhaps with zero result.

I think there would still have been a thrust and emphasis towards implicating the McCanns with the added propaganda of them fleeing from justice thrown in ...

[Brietta]

Having thought about it, I'm not sure I agree. 

We know that the McCanns were (in certain quarters!) irrationally excoriated for "fleeing from justice" leaving Portugal when they did.  Had they left earlier, they'd have been excoriated all the more fiercely. 

Never forget that Mark Harrison (thank goodness!) was only ever interested in solving the mystery of what happened to Madeleine; and recommended bringing in the dogs because he saw them as a valuable tool to contributing to that end.  I'm certain he'd have recommended bringing them in whether the McCanns were there or not. 

I think Grime would have pursued his separate agenda come what may; and all bar two of the inspections (at the villa and at the gym, because there would have been no clothes to inspect) would have gone ahead.

Remember that Harrison only ever recommended inspection of all vehicles owned or driven by Murat and I'm pretty certain he'd still have made the same recommendation.

Harrison also only ever recommended inspections in places where Madeleine either had been or conceivably might have been. 

Aside from an askew reference where Harrison appears to touch his forelock and take orders from others (unspecified) about inspections in places Madeleine never lived in or went near, Harrison  had nothing to do with those inspections, and conspicuously omitted reference to UK involvement in them in his summary of all searches.  So a search at the villa never figured in Harrison's plans; neither of any vehicle other than those driven or owned by Murat.

I think it likely that 7 of the 8 cars besides those belonging to Murat (excluding the Renault scenic) would still have made it in, perhaps with zero result.

I think there would still have been a thrust and emphasis towards implicating the McCanns with the added propaganda of them fleeing from justice thrown in ...

I  think that if the finger of suspicion had not fallen on Madeleine’s parents it is highly likely that Robert Murat would have had the full force of the investigation directed at him and I think it is possible he could have found himself in serious trouble.

Being made an arguido so early in the inquiry possibly gave him legal rights which helped him to avoid this outcome.

I think even very early on there were efforts underway to pin the crime on any feasible person … to ensure the true perpetrator\s remained in the clear.

All it would have taken imo would have been for Jane Tanner to identify the man she saw as Robert Murat.  I think he was very fortunate that she was so steadfast in refusing to identify a man she had not really seen, because at that time I think the PJ believed it was him.
A positive identification would have been all they needed to intensify their scrutiny to get this case solved.

I think he was being ‘set up’ with the anonymous phone call 8th May being the first move to implicate him.

On the11th May I think the PJ really thought they were on to something when the site visit suggested that the direction taken by the man seen by Jane Tanner and the proximity to the Murat villa and a named suspect  tied in so well with their theory of abduction.
 
Suspicions of Inspector Pedro Varanda following the Diane Webster interview which Murat translated in combination with the suspicions of Chief Inspector Reis Santos ... compounded by the suspicions he raised in the British journalist would perhaps have given him a lot of trouble if the focus had remained on him.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm

I have read carefully what you have said but I still think if the McCanns had returned home in despair at an earlier stage in the proceedings, if Jane had mistakenly identified him and other witness statements had been taken into account, I think Robert Murat would have found himself between a rock and a hard place ... leaving the perpetrator to roam free without a care in the world because everyone would have given up on Madeleine.

I think that is why Madeleine’s parents have suffered so much abuse, because they refused to go home and let go as 99.9% of the population would have ... they refused to give up on Madeleine ... no-one is looking at the original arguidos ... but two law enforcement agencies are looking for the perpetrator\s.

[slartibartfast]

Surely you aren't getting excited about a rather bad smell in the boot of the car caused by rotting meat from a bag bought at a supermarket that burst open ...

Are you?

And seeing as Portugal has a perfectly good forensic laboratory, why wasn't cuddle-cat taken on day one for forensic examination?

Trouble is, why would they buy rotting meat at a supermarket?