Sheila agitated in the early hours seemingly without provocation?

[puglove]

No, entirely implausible!

If Nevill was wide awake in the kitchen as you say, knew Sheila had a rifle and was making her way upstairs to shoot her mother or the twins, I'm pretty sure he'd have followed to get hold of it before she managed to harm anyone, instead of wasting time on the phone to call his son.  What was he... a wimp?

I couldn't agree more, Myster. Ralph's supposed message was urgent, "Come quick, your sister's gone crazy with the gun" and not "We're worried about your sister, can you come over and help us settle her down and get her back into bed?" Ralph had no way of knowing how long it would take Bamber to answer his phone, if at all. He couldn't afford to waste a single moment if Sheila HAD A GUN. He would have to try and disarm her before he did anything else.

Another example of how Bamber didn't quite think it through.

[Tim Invictus]

Pure guess work Holly with no evidence whatsoever that supports this theory.

It must have been a very quiet 'episode' Sheila had because we know June and the twins remained in bed asleep until Bamber they were shot there. 'Sheila going nuts with a gun' and June staying in bed with the twins alone in another room is  just implausible. Just as implausible as Neville leaving his wife and grandsons in mortal danger to go downstairs to call Jeremy! Especially when he had a bedside telephone and another upstairs in his office!

There is evidence of Sheila's mood that day. Neighbours stated they saw her and the twins skipping down the road as they were out enjoying a bright summer's day on the farm. They even visited their killer as Jeremy worked on the farm.

You do such a disservice to poor murdered Sheila with these groundless 'theories'! Sheila by all accounts doted on her boys and adored her father; baseless accusations that that this young mum with no history of violence murdered them are unfair poppycock!

[Holly Goodhead]

Pure guess work Holly with no evidence whatsoever that supports this theory.

It must have been a very quiet 'episode' Sheila had because we know June and the twins remained in bed asleep until Bamber they were shot there. 'Sheila going nuts with a gun' and June staying in bed with the twins alone in another room is  just implausible. Just as implausible as Neville leaving his wife and grandsons in mortal danger to go downstairs to call Jeremy! Especially when he had a bedside telephone and another upstairs in his office!

There is evidence of Sheila's mood that day. Neighbours stated they saw her and the twins skipping down the road as they were out enjoying a bright summer's day on the farm. They even visited their killer as Jeremy worked on the farm.

You do such a disservice to poor murdered Sheila with these groundless 'theories'! Sheila by all accounts doted on her boys and adored her father; baseless accusations that that this young mum with no history of violence murdered them are unfair poppycock!

I fully appreciate what you are saying here Tim.  JB was found guilty in a court of law some 28 years ago.  We now have the internet where it is possible to exchange information/ideas etc on a public forum and discuss contentious issues.  As you have previously acknowledged I always try to remain respectful to the victims and prosecution witnesses but there is no getting away from the fact that if I believe JB is the victim of a MoJ then by default I believe SC was responsible.  Prior to posting on these forums I carefully reviewed, to the best of my ability, all the information in the public domain for 2 years.     

Other posts cover your first para.

SC's moods were volatile.  Prior to her hospitalisation circa March 1985 she appeared stable so much so that her friend, Tara, left her young daughter in SC's care.  SC's mood changed from stable to very disturbed in a matter of minutes over some telephony issue.  Thankfully Freddie was in SC's company and immediately called Tara to collect her young daughter.  CC's mother (Mrs Brencher) was also called to collect the twins.  NB was called and arrived the following day.  SC was admitted to hospital for psychiatric treatment.

I do not think Dr F was a credible expert witness at all.  Imo he was conflicted by his much earlier treatment of June circa 1959 when June was admitted to a psychiatric hospital for severe depression due to her decision to adopt SC.  At this point the authorities eg social services should have been alerted and SC should have been permanently removed from the Bambers' care and the Bambers should have been prevented from adopting any further children.  Imo there is now a mountain of evidence from research over the last 30 years showing that this is where the answers to WHF lie:

 http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4513.msg163034#msg163034

[Holly Goodhead]

Andrea thinking about it further did the supposed conversation re fostering loom large in June's mind as I believe SC was placed in foster care when June was admitted to St Andrews psychiatric hospital 1959 for severe depression due to her decision to adopt SC?  I have only read from other posters that SC was placed in foster care so don't know how reliable it is.  I would have thought NB could have managed alone with help from PB but perhaps it was taken out of their hands if SS became involved?

[scipio_usmc]

It would be interesting to hear accounts from anyone who might have been with SC earlier in the day/eve prior to Mrs Temple's account to ascertain her earlier mood.

I don't believe NB was in the bedroom when June was shot initially.  I think he was in the kitchen phoning JB and run up stairs when he heard gunfire.

You believing irrational things for no good reason doesn't really mean much.

Aside form the claim you posted not being very credible it doens't speak to when it supposedly occurred.  Was it when she wasn't on her medicationa dn uring the episode that Freddie spoke about?  Was it prior to her even being treated period?  You don't know or care you just want anything you can to rely on to support what you choose to believe occurred regardles sof whether it actually happened or actually supports your claims.  Unless the alleged screms happened while she was on her medicine and related to her illness as opposed to someone disturbing her you have no way at all to say that the would just suddenly have episodes early in the morning for no reason despite being on her medicine.

[Holly Goodhead]

You believing irrational things for no good reason doesn't really mean much.

Aside form the claim you posted not being very credible it doens't speak to when it supposedly occurred.  Was it when she wasn't on her medicationa dn uring the episode that Freddie spoke about?  Was it prior to her even being treated period?  You don't know or care you just want anything you can to rely on to support what you choose to believe occurred regardles sof whether it actually happened or actually supports your claims.  Unless the alleged screms happened while she was on her medicine and related to her illness as opposed to someone disturbing her you have no way at all to say that the would just suddenly have episodes early in the morning for no reason despite being on her medicine.

You regard anyone who doesn't share your views as "irrational".  If you want to label me as "irrational" that's fine by me.  Your opinion of me personally/my posts means diddly squat. 

I have already said in previous posts that I am not convinced that SC was a paranoid schizophrenic and if she was then I think she also had other issues running alongside that diagnosis:

- Issues relating to adoption gone awry
- Attachment Disorder
- Possibly Borderline Personality Disorder
- Possibly a dissociative disorder

As such I don't place much reliance on Dr F's diagnosis and treatment. I have never commented on SC's mediation as I think it was ineffective in treating the root cause.

I think Dr F was conflicted by his treatment of June circa 1959 for severe depression due to her decision to adopt SC.  He was being paid privately by the Bambers.  There is no evidence that June and SC received family therapy and there's no evidence that Dr F was honest and open with SC and explained that June became severely depressed in 1959 as a result of her decision to adopt SC and the adverse affects.

In Dr F's WS he states he doesn't think the illnesses were caused by the same problem but fails to tell us what he thinks they were caused by. 

"Both June and Sheila suffered dillusional states of religion and Sheila's illness was influenced by her mother although I do not think the illnesses were caused by the same problem."

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3094.0

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4513.msg163034#msg163034