Are there other cases of an abductor carrying a child through streets?

[slartibartfast]

The James Bulger murder

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger


But in any case what relevance does this have to Madeleine being taken?
Every case is different as the case of the little girl being taken from her bath with family in the next room illustrates.

Every case is different

By the same argument you can't use any abduction cases to compare to this one...

[Alfred R Jones]

By the same argument you can't use any abduction cases to compare to this one...

Wrong.  Stating that because there is not another abduction with an identical set of circumstances means it can't have happened is not a valid argument.  Making comparisons with other child abductions with similar if not identical circumstances can be valid and useful.

[slartibartfast]

Wrong.  Stating that because there is not another abduction with an identical set of circumstances means it can't have happened is not a valid argument.  Making comparisons with other child abductions with similar if not identical circumstances can be valid and useful.

So is making comparisons with cases of child murder or death involving parents valid and useful?

[Alfred R Jones]

So is making comparisons with cases of child murder or death involving parents valid and useful?

Yes they can be, if there are clear similarities, either in circumstance, personality, family history etc.

[pegasus]

Also, In the Oval case the children were also abducted in broad daylight in a public place packed with sports fans.

One can see similarities in psychological tactics of perps in some abduction cases.
In the Oval case above it was asking children IIRC to help look for a lost animal underneath the stadium stands.
In the China case above IIRC it was sitting in a railway station holding a stuffed toy and waiting for curious kids to approach.
In the Huelva case which surprisingly no-one has mentioned yet it was IIRC dropping a toy from an upstairs window as a child passed.
The value of case comparisions cannot be overstated.

[pegasus]

No-one has posted an occultation case involving open carrying in arms through public streets.
There was one many decades ago in Edinburgh but that's it.
Apart from that, in hundreds of solved occultation cases, open carrying in arms through streets never happens.
It is surprising that peeps looking at occultation even consider the Smith sighting.

[pathfinder73]

How else would he move her if he didn't have a vehicle? He had no choice but to carry and didn't want her to be found close to the crime scene. He moved her when it was dark and used a quick back street route away from the OC. He just happened to meet a group of nine but he wasn't stupid and knew he would be seen. Short sleeves would stand out at that time &%+((£ PDL is a ghost town unless you're at bars/restaurants. This was a Thursday night not a weekend.

"Asked, he relates that he does not recall to have described exactly the type of pyjamas (colour, designs, etc.) that MADELEINE had worn at the time she disappeared."

[pegasus]

How else would he move her if he didn't have a vehicle? He had no choice but to carry and didn't want her to be found close to the crime scene. He moved her when it was dark and used a quick back street route away from the OC. He just happened to meet a group of nine but he wasn't stupid and knew he would be seen. Short sleeves would stand out at that time &%+((£ PDL is a ghost town unless you're at bars/restaurants. This was a Thursday night not a weekend.

"Asked, he relates that he does not recall to have described exactly the type of pyjamas (colour, designs, etc.) that MADELEINE had worn at the time she disappeared."

To easily rule out the smithman=occulter theory simply look at the hundreds of solved occultation cases available to you. Even where the outdoor pedestrian transport distance is just a few metres to a vehicle just outside the residence, always the perp always uses a bag or case or some equivalent such as a curtain or a bike cover or whatever is available, and the same applies to cases with longer pedestrian distances and no vehicle.

[pathfinder73]

To easily rule out the smithman=occulter theory simply look at the hundreds of solved occultation cases available to you. Even where the outdoor pedestrian transport distance is just a few metres to a vehicle just outside the residence, always the perp always uses a bag or case or some equivalent such as a curtain or a bike cover or whatever is available, and the same applies to cases with longer pedestrian distances and no vehicle.

Each case is unique and has to be treated as such with an open mind. Past cases are an unwanted distraction (they may help when you need it and not before). Smithman hasn't come forward for the reason he is guilty! I've walked in his shoes not others that have nothing to do with this case and moving doors and open windows not used.  The alibi and timeline were crucial for the deception to work. You have a good alibi you rule yourself out. You can say a door moved which was strange, a window was open and a child was stolen from her bed but it doesn't mean it's the truth. At the end of the day it's only what we've been told!

[sadie]

To easily rule out the smithman=occulter theory simply look at the hundreds of solved occultation cases available to you. Even where the outdoor pedestrian transport distance is just a few metres to a vehicle just outside the residence, always the perp always uses a bag or case or some equivalent such as a curtain or a bike cover or whatever is available, and the same applies to cases with longer pedestrian distances and no vehicle.

Pegasus

I do think that often history repeats itself, but also there are things in most abductions that are unique.

Because of this I personally do not think that you can depend upon whether such a thing has happened before, or not. 

I agree to a point.  Always keep it in your mind that such a way of taking an abducted child out is rare, but do not be ruled by it.  Instead look for reasons why an abducted child may have been carried thru the streets.


Your idea that the man was an innocent father who had parked his car on one of the big car parks and was walking home with his little one is feasible

And so is my idea, that the car was prevented from picking up because of Jane Tanner witnessing the abduction + Gerry and Jez being on the route the car had to take.... and frightening the driver off.
#
There way be other reasons that he was carrying fairly openly.  Reasons that we haven't thought of.

[pegasus]

@Sadie
There are 3 very different theories about Smithman.

1. Smithman = an abductor
In hundreds of abduction cases it is extremely rare (probably less than 0.1%) for the abductor to carry the victim along 400 metres or more of public populated streets.

2. Smithman = an occulter
In hundreds of occultation cases it is unheard of (happens in 0% of cases) for the perp to carry the body along 400m or more of public populated streets.

3. Smithman = innocent father carrying own sleeping daughter.
In a south european holiday resort at about 10.15pm there is nothing unlikely about a man innocently carrying his own child home, it statistically happens in every resort every night many times.

The statistics shout out loud that number 3 is almost certainly correct.

[VIXTE]

I too don't believe Madeleine was taken by the person seen by Mrs Smith.
I believe Madeleine was taken exactly from the spot where GNR dogs lost her scent and she was put in a parked car.
Who parked their car there that night it was never revealed.

Here is a recent case of an abductor carrying a child.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/utah-man-saves-kidnapped-daughter-article-1.2003192

[misty]

I too don't believe Madeleine was taken by the person seen by Mrs Smith.
I believe Madeleine was taken exactly from the spot where GNR dogs lost her scent and she was put in a parked car.
Who parked their car there that night it was never revealed.

Here is a recent case of an abductor carrying a child.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/utah-man-saves-kidnapped-daughter-article-1.2003192

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-missing-brits-among-4603875

This is the second time recently I have seen a photo showing Block 6 in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine, rather than 5a.  A subtle way of trying to tell us something?

[VIXTE]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-missing-brits-among-4603875

This is the second time recently I have seen a photo showing Block 6 in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine, rather than 5a.  A subtle way of trying to tell us something?

How strange! They also call Madeleine a  'school girl' ???

[pegasus]

@Pathfinder The study of other cases certainly would be distracting to your theory, because if you did look at a hundred or more occultation cases you would find open uncovered carrying along populated streets happens exactly never.