The nature of the crime has not been proven...

[stephen25000]

Like I've said, all he need do is tell us how he knows they are innocent.. & convert us.

Maybe you could do it for him instead, seeing as though you also know they are innocent.

You could just explain to us that logcal plausible abduction thesis you keep hidden, and convert us.

Should be simple shouldn't it?

Why don't you just do that?

He can't and won't.

Logic doesn't therefore enter the debate.

He merely defends the indefensible and just like the mccanns blame everyone else for their inadequacies.

Then asks us to be believbers in Redwood, who has come up with absolutely nothing, apart from bland statements.

[slartibartfast]

he doesn't need to do anything...ever tried telling a jehova's witness there's no god

It's a bit like telling a supporter that you think the McCann's version isn't quite kosher.

[Mr Gray]

A relaunched thread...The nature of the crime has not been proven...

of course it hasn't...that could only happen if the case went to court

[Mr Gray]

but..looking at all the evidence Maddie was almost certainly abducted.

[Mr Moderator]

but..looking at all the evidence Maddie was almost certainly abducted.

Far be it for me to dispute your claim but the only evidence would appear to me to be a missing kid.

No evidence of an intruder
No evidence of a struggle
No evidence of a window or a shutter being opened
No confirmed sightings of an abductor
No ransom demand
No confirmed sightings of missing child

[sadie]

Far be it for me to dispute your claim but the only evidence would appear to me to be a missing kid.

No evidence of an intruder
No evidence of a struggle
No evidence of a window or a shutter being opened
No confirmed sightings of an abductor
No ransom demand
No confirmed sightings of missing child

No evidence of an intruder
Open window is evidence.

No evidence of a struggle
You are joking aren't you? 
Even if Madeleine were not drugged, what impression would a 3 year old make upon a grown man.

No evidence of a window or a shutter being opened
Both open.  Mothers evidence, but you guys chose to disbelieve everything The Mccanns say for some strange reason.

No confirmed sightings of an abductor
Watchers and sightings by Jane and The Smiths of possible abductors.  Why do they all tell lies IYO ?


No ransom demand

Why would there be a ransom demand? 
Madeleine wasn't from rich parents.   Kate and Gerry were not rich per se.
She wasn't kidnapped for money.  Rich elites dont need money.


No confirmed sightings of missing child

There were sightings at 3 linked places, all of which are connected via Hemp / canabis / Hashish etc.
Rich people can buy others off, especially in criminal places like

i)   the Rif mountains in Morocco (Hemp/ canabis),Where a huge percentage of the worlds Hemp (Kif) is grown.  IIRC 50% of the worlds hemp is grown there
 
ii)   Molenbeek St John in Brussels (Hemp / Canabis and the main processing place to change the basic hemp into Canabis and Hashish and other designer drugs.  Strong daily links between The Rif Mountains and Molenbeek St John

iii)   Leh, high up in the Himalayas (Hemp, Hashish <<<< Leh is the main place on the old silk routes for importing Hshish to India)... so links to Molenbeek St John and Zinat in the Rif mountains of Morocco
IIRC 70% of all the Hashish imported into India comes thru Leh.

Especially in poor places, money [and threats] can shut mouths and already the natives in these three places were used to hiding things (drugs)

[Mr Gray]

Far be it for me to dispute your claim but the only evidence would appear to me to be a missing kid.

No evidence of an intruder
No evidence of a struggle
No evidence of a window or a shutter being opened
No confirmed sightings of an abductor
No ransom demand
No confirmed sightings of missing child

SY seem to think that abduction is the most probable cause of the disappearance. It may be that SY will find evidence of an intruder if they are allowed to look again at the forensic evidence

[Mr Moderator]

No evidence of an intruder
Open window is evidence.

No evidence of a struggle
You are joking aren't you? 
Even if Madeleine were not drugged, what impression would a 3 year old make upon a grown man.

No evidence of a window or a shutter being opened
Both open.  Mothers evidence, but you guys chose to disbelieve everything The Mccanns say for some strange reason.

No confirmed sightings of an abductor
Watchers and sightings by Jane and The Smiths of possible abductors.  Why do they all tell lies IYO ?


No ransom demand

Why would there be a ransom demand? 
Madeleine wasn't from rich parents.   Kate and Gerry were not rich per se.
She wasn't kidnapped for money.  Rich elites dont need money.


No confirmed sightings of missing child

There were sightings at 3 linked places, all of which are connected via Hemp / canabis / Hashish etc.
Rich people can buy others off, especially in criminal places like

i)   the Rif mountains in Morocco (Hemp/ canabis),Where a huge percentage of the worlds Hemp (Kif) is grown.  IIRC 50% of the worlds hemp is grown there
 
ii)   Molenbeek St John in Brussels (Hemp / Canabis and the main processing place to change the basic hemp into Canabis and Hashish and other designer drugs.  Strong daily links between The Rif Mountains and Molenbeek St John

iii)   Leh, high up in the Himalayas (Hemp, Hashish <<<< Leh is the main place on the old silk routes for importing Hshish to India)... so links to Molenbeek St John and Zinat in the Rif mountains of Morocco
IIRC 70% of all the Hashish imported into India comes thru Leh.

Especially in poor places, money [and threats] can shut mouths and already the natives in these three places were used to hiding things (drugs)

The window was closed and the shutter almost fully down when the police arrived so no evidence as I previously posted.

The rest of your post is frankly irrelevant.  Consequently, there would appear to be no evidence of an abduction.

[sadie]

The window was closed and the shutter almost fully down when the police arrived so no evidence as I previously posted.

The rest of your post is frankly irrelevant.  Consequently, there would appear to be no evidence of an abduction.

I am sory Mr M but the sightings are not irrelevant.

Kate and Gerry thought that both the little girl in the Rif mountains and the little girl walking around the bank in Molenbeek could well be Madeleine.  They saw no pictures in Leh to judge.


It is normal for people to take on board evidence from official statements, is it not?  Why are kate, Gerry and the Tapas group statements treated differently?
Kate found the window open and the shutter raised.  Why are you unable to acknowledge thta ?

[Mr Moderator]

I am sory Mr M but the sightings are not irrelevant.

Kate and Gerry thought that both the little girl in the Rif mountains and the little girl walking around the bank in Molenbeek could well be Madeleine.  They saw no pictures in Leh to judge.


It is normal for people to take on board evidence from official statements, is it not?  Why are kate, Gerry and the Tapas group statements treated differently?
Kate found the window open and the shutter raised.  Why are you unable to acknowledge thta ?

The little girls you refer to were identified and ruled out.  There are no confirmed sightings of Madeleine McCann so please stop promoting myths.

What Kate may or may not have found is not evidence of an abduction because that potential evidence, if it ever existed, was interfered with.  You will recall the one and only identifiable finger print which was found on the window.

All that is known is that Madeleine McCann disappeared some time on the evening of 3rd May 2007.

[Mr Gray]

The window was closed and the shutter almost fully down when the police arrived so no evidence as I previously posted.

The rest of your post is frankly irrelevant.  Consequently, there would appear to be no evidence of an abduction.

If you look ate the definition of evidence you will see that you are wrong...


1.  A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment: The broken window was evidence that a burglary had taken place.....

So if we look at all the witness statements...look at everything wee know about the case...all these things help us to form a judgement...therefore all these things are evidence

[Mr Moderator]

If you look ate the definition of evidence you will see that you are wrong...


1.  A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment: The broken window was evidence that a burglary had taken place.....

So if we look at all the witness statements...look at everything wee know about the case...all these things help us to form a judgement...therefore all these things are evidence

So what evidence is there which supports the abduction claim?

[Carana]

Far be it for me to dispute your claim but the only evidence would appear to me to be a missing kid.

No evidence of an intruder
No evidence of a struggle
No evidence of a window or a shutter being opened
No confirmed sightings of an abductor
No ransom demand
No confirmed sightings of missing child

"No evidence of an intruder" - hmmmm. There are numerous haplotypes that don't correspond to those known to have legitimately been there.

"No evidence of a struggle" - hard to tell what evidence of a struggle one might expect from a three-year-old, and if she'd been quickly drugged, there probably wouldn't have been one.

"No evidence of a window or a shutter being opened" - Ok. The fully open window / shutter was not seen by independent witnesses, only partially so.

"No confirmed sightings of an abductor" - Tannerman might have been one, although he appears to have been excluded and Smithman has still not been identified.

"No ransom demand" - money or political motives are not the only reasons for abducting a child.

"No confirmed sightings of missing child" - Ok. None that have appeared to have led anywhere. On the other hand, many people would still have the mental image of the little girl as she was, not as she would have been even two years later, let alone seven.  Natascha Kampusch, Elizabeth Smart and Jaycee Lee Dugard had all been out and about in public numerous times before they were either rescued or escaped. There was also a little boy (a UK case, IIRC), who was often seen in the company of his "daddy", and no one thought anything of it. He was only found because a neighbour contacted the police on the off-chance.

[Mr Gray]

So what evidence is there which supports the abduction claim?

lets start with Maddie is missing

[Angelo222]

The window was closed and the shutter almost fully down when the police arrived so no evidence as I previously posted.

The rest of your post is frankly irrelevant.  Consequently, there would appear to be no evidence of an abduction.

On da money as dey say.   Looks like the diminishing boys in blue from de olde bill have spent £7.3 mil on the McCanns say so that the window and shutter were were open once upon a time. 

ETA Maddie being missing is evidence that Maddie is missing and nuthin more.  All these years and not a slither of anything tangible says it all.