Claims that Nevill phoned police while Sheila went on rampage.

[Andrea]

Bamber said in his WS that it sounded like the call had been cut off. If Neville had just put the phone on the kitchen sideboard the call wouldn't have been cut off and Bamber would have heard what was going on.
And do you really think that Neville would have left a gun out when there were 2 young boys staying at WHF that night?
Neville had been a farmer for years and knew how dangerous that would have been with those boys around, kids touch and explore everything, a gun would have been no exception.

Its all too convenient, Holly. This had been cooked up by Bamber for months and months. The supposed discussion about adoption, the gun left laying around. You only have Bambers word for any of this. All the other witnesses to this so called discussion and the gun are all dead.

[Holly Goodhead]

Bamber said in his WS that it sounded like the call had been cut off. If Neville had just put the phone on the kitchen sideboard the call wouldn't have been cut off and Bamber would have heard what was going on.
And do you really think that Neville would have left a gun out when there were 2 young boys staying at WHF that night?
Neville had been a farmer for years and knew how dangerous that would have been with those boys around, kids touch and explore everything, a gun would have been no exception.

Its all too convenient, Holly. This had been cooked up by Bamber for months and months. The supposed discussion about adoption, the gun left laying around. You only have Bambers word for any of this. All the other witnesses to this so called discussion and the gun are all dead.

If SC fled from the kitchen to the bedroom when NB was on the phone to JB with NB leaving the handset off the cradle
and on the worktop when/if he heard gunfire from the bedroom, JB would not have heard the background noise from that distance.  You can test it with your landline and mobile.  JB tried to call back to ascertain what NB wanted JB to do.  NB probably expected to add further/continue his call with JB.

I agree NB would not leave a loaded gun around with the twins at WHF.  JB surely realised this?  There was nothing to stop SC going to the gun cupboard and preparing it for use.  JB was just being truthful in accounting for his last movements at WHF.  If he wanted to lie/embellish he would surely have added that SC became upset/distressed/angry about the supposed conversations about the twins being fostered/adopted? He didn't though; he said SC didn't add a lot to the conversations and seem uninterested.

If you read CC's mother's WS on Blue (Mrs Brencher) you will see she refers to a fairly recent conversation with June where June states she is worried the twins will be taken into foster care so there is an independent witness confirming June spoke in these terms.  We know Andrea this was unlikely to happen from a legal perspective but perhaps others didn't at the time including SC.  Whether June knew this too and used it to try and control the situation or she held a genuine fear I have no idea.

[John]

Holly, Nevill never dropped the phone handset, the call was cancelled and the handset left to dangle.  A minor but significant difference like so many things in this case.

[Holly Goodhead]

Holly, Nevill never dropped the phone handset, the call was cancelled and the handset left to dangle.  A minor but significant difference like so many things in this case.

Ah I thought the line was left open WHF end with the handset left on the kitchen worktop as it was found by EP?  JB attempted to call back to ascertain what action NB wanted him to take and received the engaged tone?  I thought the line was left open WHF end and a BT operator was able to listen in (heard nothing) under the direction of EP?

[Caroline]

Ah I thought the line was left open WHF end with the handset left on the kitchen worktop as it was found by EP?  JB attempted to call back to ascertain what action NB wanted him to take and received the engaged tone?  I thought the line was left open WHF end and a BT operator was able to listen in (heard nothing) under the direction of EP?

It was.

[John]

Ah I thought the line was left open WHF end with the handset left on the kitchen worktop as it was found by EP?  JB attempted to call back to ascertain what action NB wanted him to take and received the engaged tone?  I thought the line was left open WHF end and a BT operator was able to listen in (heard nothing) under the direction of EP?

No and yes.  Assuming for a minute such a call was made from WHF, you have to understand the workings of the GPO telephone exchange as it was back in 1985.  The call ended abruptly as the cradle was pushed down to end the call.  The handset was left dangling and the phone would emit a dialing tone.   At the Goldhanger end all that would have been heard was a continuous tone signalling that the caller had ended the call.

After a while the dialing tone at the WHF end would cease.  The GPO operator only had to connect to the line to hear any input from the farmhouse.

Had the call not been ended and the line left open then JB would have heard background noises and he would not have been able to make any call to Julie since the call from WHF would be blocking his line.

Hope this helps.   

[Holly Goodhead]

No and yes.  Assuming for a minute such a call was made from WHF, you have to understand the workings of the GPO telephone exchange as it was back in 1985.  The call ended abruptly as the cradle was pushed down to end the call.  The handset was left dangling and the phone would emit a dialing tone.   At the Goldhanger end all that would have been heard was a continuous tone signalling that the caller had ended the call.

After a while the dialing tone at the WHF end would cease.  The GPO operator only had to connect to the line to hear any input from the farmhouse.

Had the call not been ended and the line left open then JB would have heard background noises and he would not have been able to make any call to Julie since the call from WHF would be blocking his line.

Hope this helps.   

JB said it sounded as though he had been cut off but I haven't heard him refer to any "continuous tone".  When receiving a call it's only possible to hear immediate background noise from the caller.  If NB had left the handset on the worktop, as it was found, and went upstairs I don't believe JB would be able to hear even loud noises eg gunshot?  Of course all this should have been thoroughly investigated at the time by ascertaining decibels from the rifle and ammo within a closed environment.  How long did JB wait until he claims he ended the call his end and called WHF only to receive the engaged tone.  This seems to corroborate with expert testimony at trial:

68. There was no evidence of telephone billing information of the sort which would be available these days. There was, however, expert evidence called as to the effect of a telephone call having been made from White House Farm to Goldhanger which was then abandoned by the caller with the receiver being left off the cradle, as claimed by the appellant. If such a sequence had occurred, the telephone link would have remained open either until the handset at White House Farm was replaced or until the handset at Goldhanger had been replaced and left in position for a period which could vary from 1 to 2 minutes, when an automatic interruption of the link would take place. Until one or other of these events, the appellant would have been unable to make any call from the Goldhanger telephone.

[Holly Goodhead]

When JB was asked why NB would call him (JB) and not the police JB claims that NB was not the sort to get organisations involved and preferred to keep things in the family:

29. The appellant told the officers about the telephone call from his father, adding that it sounded as though someone had cut him off. When asked if it was possible that his sister was inside with a gun he said yes. He told the police that he did not get on with her. He was asked if it was likely that his sister had gone berserk with a gun and he replied, "I don't really know. She is a nutter. She's been having treatment." When asked why his father had called him and not the police, he said that his father was not the sort of person to get "organisations" involved, preferring to keep things within the family. When asked why he had not dialled 999, the appellant said he did not think it would make any difference to the time it would have taken for the police to arrive.

The above seems to corroborate with independent witnesses:

1. NB had a low opinion of the police as stated in RB's WS

"he (NB) commented that if they were like the police at Witham they were no more good than Dad's Army":

(bottom of 1st, top of 2nd)

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=513.0;attach=1651

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=513.0;attach=1652

2. The Bambers were private people as stated in CC's book:

"One of the most striking things about that day, although not altogether surprising for me, was the fact that, the more I talked to June and Nevill's relations, the more I realised none of them actually knew anything had been seriously wrong with Bambs - not even June's sister Pam.  Many of them said that had they known, they would have been more than willing to help and share the burden.  Why hadn't I contacted them and told them all about it?  I couldn't believe what I was hearing and could only reply by saying that I didn't feel it had been my business to betray the Bamber's confidence.  They were very private people whose decisions I had to respect - whether right or wrong.  These people had no idea how much I'd need them as allies to convince June and Nevill of how strongly I felt Bamb's treatment should have been changed".

It's also interesting to note that NB seemed to prefer private services over public services.  Obviously he was in a financial position to choose.  Nevertheless:

SC and JB were privately educated
SC and June received private psychiatric treatment
NB desisted RWB's idea of involving the local police in the security of OCP likening them to Dad's Army

Again there's some evidence that what JB said about NB not wanting to involve "organisations" might be true.

[adam]

The judge called Neville's phone call to Jeremy 'mysterious'.

The dictionary definition - ' Difficult or impossible to understand or explain'.

[John]

Jeremy said the line went dead which avoided him having to make up a story about what he heard in the form of background noises.  It also allowed him to phone Julie immediately.

The truth however is somewhat different.  Jeremy made the call to his cottage in Goldhanger and left the telephone handset to dangle.

[Holly Goodhead]

Jeremy said the line went dead which avoided him having to make up a story about what he heard in the form of background noises.  It also allowed him to phone Julie immediately.

The truth however is somewhat different.  Jeremy made the call to his cottage in Goldhanger and left the telephone handset to dangle.

If SC and NB were in the kitchen with NB phoning JB and SC running off upstairs, and NB leaving the handset on the kitchen worktop (the soc photos doesn't show any dangling), I am not sure JB would hear too much?  As far as I can see/hear, using my landline and mobile, any noise from upstairs would not be heard in the kitchen by listening through the ear piece via the open phone?

What would be the purpose of JB calling Goldhanger?

[John]

If SC and NB were in the kitchen with NB phoning JB and SC running off upstairs, and NB leaving the handset on the kitchen worktop (the soc photos doesn't show any dangling), I am not sure JB would hear too much?  As far as I can see/hear, using my landline and mobile, any noise from upstairs would not be heard in the kitchen by listening through the ear piece via the open phone?

What would be the purpose of JB calling Goldhanger?

He would have heard shouting, dog barking etc...

JB called Goldhanger to register a call.

[Holly Goodhead]

He would have heard shouting, dog barking etc...

JB called Goldhanger to register a call.

I don't believe JB would have heard anything through the earpiece in the kitchen if the commotion was going on upstairs.  The indoor dog, Crispy, I believe was June's and slept in the main bedroom?  Certainly it was found in the main bedroom by EP.  However as with most things with this case conflicting reports  exist as to exactly where it was found: under the bed and in a wardrobe!  When the BT operator listened in she heard a dog barking but we do not know where it was at that time and this was an hour or two after NB's supposed call.  Was it in the kitchen given that it must have been aware that a number of strangers were outside?  It would not necessarily bark when the occupants were under attack as they were all people it was  familiar with and it would not have fully appreciated what was  going on.  It may have been in the kitchen prior to the raid team breaking in as it was aware of strangers outside and then as the sledgehammer was applied to the door it may have fled under the bed or in the wardrobe.

Calls did not register back in 1985 hence the debates about the phone calls?  In any event when a call is made if it is not picked up within a certain time period I believe there's an automatic interruption of the call.  Are you saying JB made a call from WHF to Goldhanger, cycled home in his wetsuit and was greeted by the sound of his phone ringing he then lifted the receiver to provide an alibi?  He lived in a tiny semi-detached cottage and I think in the dead of night his neighbours might have heard the phone ringing for what would amount to a considerable length of time in terms of a telephone ringing and going unanswered.  There's a difference in a phone ringing for a minute or two and some 20 odd minutes.  Tests could be carried out to test this theory and at WHF too.  I don't know why more wasn't made of noise/sound and decibels to measure such. 

[anglolawyer]

I had a eureka moment and wondered whether this simple and obvious point had cropped up before.   One of JB's get out of jail free cards is Nevill's call to PC West, as noted indirectly by Bonnet.   There are two problems with it:

1.  coincidence

What are the odds they would both end up speaking to the same guy?   This implies that Nevill, like Bamber, chose not to call 999 but rather look up and dial the number for Chelmsford.

2.  PC West's behaviour

During Bamber's call PC West gave no indication that he was already aware of the situation or that action had been taken.   Therefore, he wasn't and it hadn't.

3.  Timing (no one expects the Spanish Inquisition)

If Nevill called the cops he did so within minutes of calling JB.   That would mean shortly after 3.00 a.m.  Why would West do nothing to set the wheels in motion for nearly half an hour?   

There's nothing new under the sun so I guess this ground is well trodden.   Still, I am a great believer in the scope for digging up new points in these cases so I would be interested in the thoughts of the experts on the above.

[Angelo222]

The points you raise are very valid.

There only ever was one call to the police and that call was made by Jeremy Bamber.