Author Topic: Claims that Nevill phoned police while Sheila went on rampage.  (Read 21603 times)

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Offline Myster

Re: Claims that Nevill phoned police while Sheila went on rampage.
« Reply #90 on: September 24, 2015, 06:39:01 PM »
I can't remember seeing anything about him circling phone numbers - maybe he had written down various ones before going to bed or even earlier, ready prepared.

Straight from the horse's mouth 26 years later...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/the-jeremy-bamber-files-exclusive-audio-191151

What would Essex Police have done without Miss Marple?

What was going on at the farm after 3.00am? - nothing, because they were all dead, other than Crispy who couldn't believe his family no longer existed.  If only dogs could talk!

It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Claims that Nevill phoned police while Sheila went on rampage.
« Reply #91 on: September 24, 2015, 08:16:03 PM »
Does anyone recall the source for something I thought I saw.   Im worried that I may have made it up.   Did Bamber circle the number of the police in the telephone directory in the course of looking it up?

While here, I have tracked down a reference to something important.   Per Ann Eaton's 8th Sep 85 witness statement, she says he told police on the morning of 7th Aug that he called Witham police first, got no answer and then called Chelmsford.   Suspicious, no?

Another thing on the phone calls that occurs to me so I'll jot it down - two things actually - concerning the idea that Malcolm Bonnet's note records a call from Nevill:

(i) by what means would Nevill place a call that, by extraordinary coincidence, went right through to Bonnet?   Bonnet was not at Chelmsford or Witham and AFAIK he was not handling 999 calls either (which would still entail a very high degree of coincidence), and

(ii) as Jeremy himself says Nevill called him at 3.00 a.m. what on earth was going on at WHF between that time and 3.36 which is the time recorded by Bonnet on the supposedly suspicious note?

I think I vaguely recall something about JB marking the number in the book but no idea of the source.  I don't think its in any of the WS's.

Here's AE's WS and PC West's trial transcript re Witham:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=2191

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=170.0;attach=317   

Did JB actually phone Witham or did he just say he didn't phone them because he knew it was unmanned at night.  He would surely know Witham covered WHF and maybe that's why he mentioned Witham ie that he didn't call them as he knew it was unmanned hence he called Chelmsford.   

In the absence of digital/satellite technology I don't see what can be proved or disproved by poring over the phone calls? 

To my mind WHF and the Bamber family were not the norm which in some ways might explain the phone calls:

- Isolated property (not outer Hebrides but far more isolated than most dwellings)
- Family created by adoption
- Two occupants with serious histories of mental illness
- One of the above recently discharged from a psychiatric unit (Spring '85)
- Family liked to keep the severity of the mental illnesses private even from extended family
- One occupant a magistrate
- Firearms and ammunition at property and readily accessible ie not locked away

The above is an extremely unusual combination and for me goes some way to explain NB's call to JB but I can see how many don't share my views re the phone calls.

Good point about MB. 

I thought JB said circa 3.15am?  Please don't drag me into the times of the phone calls 8)><( it bores the pants off me  8)><( as nothing can be advanced here.   

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Claims that Nevill phoned police while Sheila went on rampage.
« Reply #92 on: September 24, 2015, 08:21:36 PM »
I can't remember seeing anything about him circling phone numbers - maybe he had written down various ones before going to bed or even earlier, ready prepared.

Straight from the horse's mouth 26 years later...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/the-jeremy-bamber-files-exclusive-audio-191151

What would Essex Police have done without Miss Marple?

What was going on at the farm after 3.00am? - nothing, because they were all dead, other than Crispy who couldn't believe his family no longer existed.  If only dogs could talk!

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5723.msg202984#msg202984

I don't think JB's knowledge of his case is that good.  How could it be when he has limited resources and is  reliant on others?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 08:31:22 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline anglolawyer

Re: Claims that Nevill phoned police while Sheila went on rampage.
« Reply #93 on: September 24, 2015, 08:54:30 PM »
The phone calls are absolutely key IMO.   If I find he circled the number in the book, I've got him!

Here's another question: why aren't the exact times of all these calls known?   Surely the provider must have had records it used for billing?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Claims that Nevill phoned police while Sheila went on rampage.
« Reply #94 on: September 25, 2015, 07:20:21 AM »
The phone calls are absolutely key IMO.   If I find he circled the number in the book, I've got him!

Here's another question: why aren't the exact times of all these calls known?   Surely the provider must have had records it used for billing?

Think u cld b my tb al if u don't remember mid 80's billing!  Unfortunately the technology didn't exist at the time.  Calls were just lumped together based on distance: local, regional, international and whether they were made at peak times or off-peak.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline anglolawyer

Re: Claims that Nevill phoned police while Sheila went on rampage.
« Reply #95 on: September 25, 2015, 10:11:50 AM »
Think u cld b my tb al if u don't remember mid 80's billing!  Unfortunately the technology didn't exist at the time.  Calls were just lumped together based on distance: local, regional, international and whether they were made at peak times or off-peak.
You think I could be your table … ?   The 2002 appeal judgment says there were no billing records as we have today (para. 68) but that does not mean the phone provider did not keep records which did not find their way into the bills.   It is a very frustrating aspect because the case could be totally and easily solved with this stuff.   If a call went through from WHF to Bourtree and it was picked up at Bamber's end then he's off the hook, just like the phone was.   How maddening.

Offline Myster

Re: Claims that Nevill phoned police while Sheila went on rampage.
« Reply #96 on: September 25, 2015, 11:05:50 AM »
It's Holly's innuendospeak for "toyboy, al".

I can't believe that the police made no enquiries about phone timings from the provider. The case would have been solved instantly, so exact records mustn't have existed at all.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Claims that Nevill phoned police while Sheila went on rampage.
« Reply #97 on: September 25, 2015, 11:54:46 AM »
You think I could be your table … ?   The 2002 appeal judgment says there were no billing records as we have today (para. 68) but that does not mean the phone provider did not keep records which did not find their way into the bills.   It is a very frustrating aspect because the case could be totally and easily solved with this stuff.   If a call went through from WHF to Bourtree and it was picked up at Bamber's end then he's off the hook, just like the phone was.   How maddening.

No sorry not the right legs  8)-)))

I think it might have been possible to trace calls when the caller was on the line but not once the call was ended.  Hence the IRA gave warnings via call boxes.  You might recall cop progs like Z Cars where they would get frustrated when they hadn't managed to trace the call before the caller hung up.



Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline anglolawyer

Re: Claims that Nevill phoned police while Sheila went on rampage.
« Reply #98 on: September 25, 2015, 12:11:37 PM »
No sorry not the right legs  8)-)))

I think it might have been possible to trace calls when the caller was on the line but not once the call was ended.  Hence the IRA gave warnings via call boxes.  You might recall cop progs like Z Cars where they would get frustrated when they hadn't managed to trace the call before the caller hung up.
Tracing calls isn't quite the same thing.   Look at this way.   The phone company would charge different tariffs according to whether calls were local or at off peaks times etc.   It follows they must have kept records of such things, whether they provided details in the customer's bill or not.   If a customer challenged a bill there would have had to be a way of justifying it and that would of necessity have been rooted in the technology of some kind.   That's not to say BT must have logged the specific times of calls, as opposed to just the plain number falling within the various charging categories.   In fact, we can probably pretty sure from this case that they did not because if they did the case would have been solved very quickly (either Bamber answered a call from Nevill or he didn't).

My legs are the best part of me.   I'm upset now.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Claims that Nevill phoned police while Sheila went on rampage.
« Reply #99 on: September 25, 2015, 02:26:42 PM »
Tracing calls isn't quite the same thing.   Look at this way.   The phone company would charge different tariffs according to whether calls were local or at off peaks times etc.   It follows they must have kept records of such things, whether they provided details in the customer's bill or not.   If a customer challenged a bill there would have had to be a way of justifying it and that would of necessity have been rooted in the technology of some kind.   That's not to say BT must have logged the specific times of calls, as opposed to just the plain number falling within the various charging categories.   In fact, we can probably pretty sure from this case that they did not because if they did the case would have been solved very quickly (either Bamber answered a call from Nevill or he didn't).

My legs are the best part of me.   I'm upset now.

The cost was based on local, regional and international calls determined by dialling codes.  There was no tariff as such just peak or off-peak. 

I like cyclists' legs as in racing cyclists with lycra shorts  8(>((
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline anglolawyer

Re: Claims that Nevill phoned police while Sheila went on rampage.
« Reply #100 on: September 25, 2015, 02:29:21 PM »
The cost was based on local, regional and international calls determined by dialling codes.  There was no tariff as such just peak or off-peak. 
snip
I do follow.   It still means BT must have had systems that recorded the number and type of call made so it could be charged correctly.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Claims that Nevill phoned police while Sheila went on rampage.
« Reply #101 on: September 25, 2015, 04:24:14 PM »
I do follow.   It still means BT must have had systems that recorded the number and type of call made so it could be charged correctly.

Not necessarily as it was the dialling code that determined one part of the cost and the time within two sets of parameters the other.  So it would not be necessary to have the full number or exact time.  It was very basic compared with the tariffs and billing of today. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline anglolawyer

Re: Claims that Nevill phoned police while Sheila went on rampage.
« Reply #102 on: September 25, 2015, 05:12:28 PM »
Not necessarily as it was the dialling code that determined one part of the cost and the time within two sets of parameters the other.  So it would not be necessary to have the full number or exact time.  It was very basic compared with the tariffs and billing of today.
I didn't say 'exact time' and the number I was referring to was not the telephone number but the number of calls made by the person to be charged.   Apart from that, we're jake.

Offline Myster

Re: Claims that Nevill phoned police while Sheila went on rampage.
« Reply #103 on: September 25, 2015, 05:27:15 PM »
Jake!!?  See what happens when you spend too much time on an American forum... thank god for Google!
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline anglolawyer

Re: Claims that Nevill phoned police while Sheila went on rampage.
« Reply #104 on: September 25, 2015, 09:21:25 PM »
Jake!!?  See what happens when you spend too much time on an American forum... thank god for Google!
Ha, that almost gets a smiley.