Witnesses claimed to have seen Robert Murat the night Maddie disappeared.

[faithlilly]

I tend to be of the opinion - if he looked like RM, translated like RM, lived in the vicinity like RM - then it most likely was RM.
As you said - why didn't the PJ seek out this doppelganger to clear up any confusion & help substantiate RM's alibi?
A simple question, addressed to all those who said he was there, would have been "what was the translator wearing?".

So Murat is lying ?

[mercury]

I tend to be of the opinion - if he looked like RM, translated like RM, lived in the vicinity like RM - then it most likely was RM.
As you said - why didn't the PJ seek out this doppelganger to clear up any confusion & help substantiate RM's alibi?
A simple question, addressed to all those who said he was there, would have been "what was the translator wearing?".

No, if he looked like Murat, then he just looked like him to people who didn't know him (and the alleged doppelganger) there is not a single person who knew him who said he was there

Translating like Murat?

This whole suspicion of him being there, mixing, translating as well, talking to police, is a non starter IMO. The locals and police knew him, why on earth would he say he wasn't there when he would have been spotted by people who knew him.

[misty]

So Murat is lying ?

That would depend on which of his version of events you wish to believe. He did make several alterations to his statements.

[pegasus]

No, if he looked like Murat, then he just looked like him to people who didn't know him (and the alleged doppelganger) there is not a single person who knew him who said he was there

Translating like Murat?

This whole suspicion of him being there, mixing, translating as well, talking to police, is a non starter IMO. The locals and police knew him, why on earth would he say he wasn't there when he would have been spotted by people who knew him.

That's a good summary Mercury.
Everyone who claims to have seen RM that night did not know RM.
They saw another bilingual local who resembles RM.

[faithlilly]

That would depend on which of his version of events you wish to believe. He did make several alterations to his statements.

He has always maintained that he was nowhere near 5a on the night of the third.

[misty]

No, if he looked like Murat, then he just looked like him to people who didn't know him (and the alleged doppelganger) there is not a single person who knew him who said he was there

Translating like Murat?

This whole suspicion of him being there, mixing, translating as well, talking to police, is a non starter IMO. The locals and police knew him, why on earth would he say he wasn't there when he would have been spotted by people who knew him.

Please tell us how many folk other than JW & BVW knew him by sight & were present around the Tapas reception until 2340hrs. How did the GNR officers know him?

[pegasus]

What happened is there were two people translating between searchers and GNR that night, one was female employee SB, and the other was a local man who vaguely resembles RM. Some people saw that man translating that night, then saw vaguely-similar-looking RM translating next day, and merged the two men in memory.

Two witnesses were there that night who did know RM (local lady JW and local man BW) and they both state very clearly that RM was not there.

[misty]

What happened is there were two people translating between people and GNR that night, one was employee SB, and the other was a local man who vaguely resembles RM. Some people saw that man translating that night, then saw vaguely-similar-looking RM translating next day, and merged the two men in memory.

Two witnesses who did know RM were there that night (local lady JW and local man BW) and they both state very clearly that RM was not there.

And FP was quite specific, too, right down to the eye defect.
Why did the PJ find it necessary to bring back to Portugal the 3 witnesses for the meeting with RM in the July? Had they not established by that time RM was not in the vicinity offering his services for a short while?
Is it your opinion that JW & BvW saw everyone who was in & around 5a that evening?

[mercury]

Please tell us how many folk other than JW & BVW knew him by sight & were present around the Tapas reception until 2340hrs. How did the GNR officers know him?

The point was there will have been people who would have seen and recognised him, not every single resident was interviewed

As for the GNR/PJ , presumably he has helped them in the past translating so that is how they might know him, several have said they don't recall seeing him, some arrived later but one GNR officer was there at 11 ish and says he didn't see him

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NELSON-DA-COSTA-1.htm

And you haven't answered my question, why lie when the lie could so easily be exposed as one...and why lie anyway as if being there meant something important??

[mercury]

What happened is there were two people translating between searchers and GNR that night, one was female employee SB, and the other was a local man who vaguely resembles RM. Some people saw that man translating that night, then saw vaguely-similar-looking RM translating next day, and merged the two men in memory.

Two witnesses were there that night who did know RM (local lady JW and local man BW) and they both state very clearly that RM was not there.

With so many expats there and living there a long time, I imagine there could have been a few translators around...or even Portuguese people with an excellent command of English

[mercury]

And FP was quite specific, too, right down to the eye defect.
Why did the PJ find it necessary to bring back to Portugal the 3 witnesses for the meeting with RM in the July? Had they not established by that time RM was not in the vicinity offering his services for a short while?
Is it your opinion that JW & BvW saw everyone who was in & around 5a that evening?

FP imagined she saw him that night, after all, she excelled at saying a whle multitude of times for various events eg it was Sunday or Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday, maybe Thursday, very unreliable witness IMO

and 150 metres away indoors is exactly nowhere near

[misty]

The point was there will have been people who would have seen and recognised him, not every single resident was interviewed

As for the GNR/PJ , presumably he has helped them in the past translating so that is how they might know him, several have said they don't recall seeing him, some arrived later but one GNR officer was there at 11 ish and says he didn't see him

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NELSON-DA-COSTA-1.htm

And you haven't answered my question, why lie when the lie could so easily be exposed as one...and why lie anyway as if being there meant something important??

Why would the GNR/PJ have previously employed him to translate for them when they had an official list of translators? The scale of translation required in the aftermath of Madeleine's disappearance was unprecedented, hence the police welcomed whatever help was available.
Wherever the "translator" was, he certainly wasn't standing outside the Tapas Bar or 5a all night.
Why change his original alibi - he wasn't originally under any suspicion. If he had been, he would have had to explain his early presence that night, bearing in mind the cars with the sirens went to the 24hr reception first.

[pegasus]

And FP was quite specific, too, right down to the eye defect.
Why did the PJ find it necessary to bring back to Portugal the 3 witnesses for the meeting with RM in the July? Had they not established by that time RM was not in the vicinity offering his services for a short while?
Is it your opinion that JW & BvW saw everyone who was in & around 5a that evening?

SB told the PJ that RM was there that night and told them to ask JW and BW to confirm it.
Therefore SB had seen JW and BW there at the same time she saw the man she mistook for RM.
That's why she told the PJ to ask them.
Both JW and BW said definitely RM was not there.

[misty]

Inconsistencies can suggest many things besides innocence or guilt, such as a lack of knowledge or inaccurate recollection. Sometimes they can even be as a result of the question being misunderstood (especially when there is a language barrier).

[misty]

SB told the PJ that RM was there that night and told them to ask JW and BW to confirm it.
Therefore SB had seen JW and BW there at the same time she saw the man she mistook for RM.
That's why she told the PJ to ask them.
Both JW and BW said definitely RM was not there.

http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BAREND_WEIJDOM.htm
*snipped*

He then went to the place where the events occurred which was at about 21.45 - 21.50. At this time various local people and MW staff were present.

  When questioned he said that the police wasn’t there yet but arrived about 5 minutes later.


 When asked he says that he has known Robert Murat for about 3 or 4 years, making clear that his relation with him is limited to 'good morning' and 'good evening'.

 When questioned he says that he did not see Murat on the night of the events and he makes it clear that if Murat had been at the scene he would have remembered.

 He adds that he was not on the scene for much time as he went to search the beach areas.

 On that night, the last time he was at the scene was at about 01.00, he did not see Murat at that time either.

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I conclude from his statement he was at the 24 hour reception, then went to the beach.


JW - I believe she was the slightly inebriated bar worker P/F referred to in post 112, who irritated KM.