Was Madeleine McCann run over by accident and then carried off?

[Angelo222]

For your information I am not "keen to protect the abduction claim" as you so quaintly put it, what I am keen to do is to point out the absurd absence of logic and joined up thinking in those that absolutely and obstinately REFUSE to countenance the possibility that Madeleine was abducted and in so doing contort their thought processes into all sorts of daft shapes in order to try and make their own theories fit the evidence.

You have a really strange notion of what constitutes an insult.  You asked a question which you then answered thus proving my point as to why you asked it in the first place.

Your insistence that the abduction claim should usurp every other theory on the basis of nil evidence is the biggest joke.  The McCanns shout abduction so we should believe them?  Not flipping likely. 

[Angelo222]

Alfred, maybe you will answer my question about Kate McCann and her admission that telling fibs on occasion was not a unique phenomena to her?

Back to the op.  There is no evidence whatsoever that Kate McCann found an open window and raised shutter, only her say so. I find the woke and wandered theory the most plausible all considered and plenty of former English detectives have gone on record to agree.

[Brietta]

As it stands nobody knows but I don't think he was run over as it was daytime and at a place with little traffic.

I believe it was one of the theories ... specifically involving his uncle's motorbike ... put forward by the police when the Needhams too suffered accusation in relation to Ben's disappearance.

[Angelo222]

I believe it was one of the theories ... specifically involving his uncle's motorbike ... put forward by the police when the Needhams too suffered accusation in relation to Ben's disappearance.

Yes, I recall that being voiced at the time.  People will do strange things when their neck is on the line.

[Angelo222]

The evidence Alfred, follow the evidence and leave the semantics at the 'front door'.   

[pegasus]

Is it recorded that anyone else at the table heard this conversation, or is it just what Fiona says that Kate said?

In the published files only group members mention it, no other diner mentions hearing it.
However one diner in the restaurant that evening did state that he and his wife and young children were sitting at the next table which was close enough to converse with the group.

[Alfred R Jones]

The evidence Alfred, follow the evidence and leave the semantics at the 'front door'.   

Show us the abundant evidence for woke and wandered then.  There must be loads more of it than for the abduction theory.  So what is it?   An alleged letter that couldn't possibly have been written by anyone other than a hit and run driver, a sniffer dog trail that couldn't possibly have been following Madeleine accompanied by an abductor and what else? 

[pegasus]

... crying for 90 minutes ...

Checked statement, it says 10.30pm-11.45pm.
75 minutes not 90 minutes.

[Brietta]

Is there any evidence or any suggestion that a vehicle had been involved in an accident with a pedestrian in the vicinity of the McCann apartment on the night of the third?

For example was any blood or tissue found ... broken headlight glass discovered ... broken windscreen glass or mirrors ... skid marks on the road ... damage to walls or street furniture?

Is there any evidence that a vehicle which might have had damage suggestive of collision with a pedestrian been found abandoned or burned out?

Has there been a witness report of such an accident near to the apartment or any event involving a vehicle, bearing in mind expert opinion is that had Madeleine exited the apartment of her  own volition her likely route would have taken her downhill to the lighted entrance of the tapas restaurant; a route which was on the pavement all the way.

In the absence of evidence to the contrary, the notion that Madeleine may have been the victim of an RTA is speculation without a shred of evidence to support it.
     

[Brietta]

Show us the abundant evidence for woke and wandered then.  There must be loads more of it than for the abduction theory.  So what is it?   An alleged letter that couldn't possibly have been written by anyone other than a hit and run driver, a sniffer dog trail that couldn't possibly have been following Madeleine accompanied by an abductor and what else?

At the moment we have no idea if such a letter exists as there has been no official statement to that effect.

If it does exist, we have no idea of content nor if its author is some sort of crank.

That it seems to have been promoted as another stick to beat the Madeleine's parents with ... I find incredibly sad ... particularly when it is obvious that as far as the Met is concerned, they are the victims of a criminal act.

[pegasus]

Is there any evidence or any suggestion that a vehicle had been involved in an accident ...

Not that I know of.
Here are two minor road incidents that evening (not in published files)
At about 8pm at a nearby junction (but not the T junction next to 5A) a small brown car, with just one English-looking man in it, reportedly swung round and nearly hit witness's car.
At about 8.30pm a black saloon car reversed sharply, exact location not stated but somewhere vaguely near 5A, there were two male occupants, witness had not seen them before, and thought they were acting strangely.

[Brietta]

Not that I know of.
Here are two minor road incidents that evening (not in published files)
At about 8pm at a nearby junction (but not the T junction next to 5A) a small brown car, with just one English-looking man in it, reportedly swung round and nearly hit witness's car.
At about 8.30pm a black saloon car reversed sharply, exact location not stated but somewhere vaguely near 5A, there were two male occupants, witness had not seen them before, and thought they were acting strangely.

So nothing which confirms a hit and run.

[VIXTE]

This was actually my first idea when it all happened.
But then someone says the accident would be heard by the local residents.

The other things are: closed patio doors and the gate and the pulled patio curtain. Madeleine would have never done this herself.

[bros]

No run  but premeditated kidnapping as Redwood stated just listen him carefully when he speaks . With the following occurrence this is my theory and some parts have already been posted here by some forum members and very soon SY might prove or reject very soon: This is just educated guess and some of the parts I read on this forum ....with which I agree and re-order them here.

1 Predators were scanning and taking pictures of young children near PDL on 29April 2007 Until late on 29 they didnt have the target(according to the witness report). Witness saw them and reported to the police.

2. McCain family  on 30th travel to this place near PDL. Maddie was spotted marked and picture of her was sent for approval to start kidnapping plans.

3. Buy the  late evening on "someone" approved the picture and they started building PDL kidnapping crew.

4. One of the key persons who was supposed to be logistic was abroad and was ordered to come as fast as he can.He took the next morning flight from country X to PDL.

5. Kidnapping occurred. Some important arrest were made but police didnt want to publish unprocessed evidence they keep them secret until today so they have let go some of the interviewees after 6 months hopping one day evidence can match the offender.

6. SY got involved after couple of years they were ready to face new suspects with the new old evidence. Suddenly breakthrough. One of the people involved in kidnapping start negotiation for his status  if he tells the whole story what happened that night and who and how is involved. SY and PDL might accept this offer for lesser punishment( I got this from newspaper reporter taking statements from people involved ) he said something very important from legal aspect).

[John]

Not likely to happen if he was taking  her to a hospital, as that would have happened before any alarm was raised.

Maybe he carried her off with good intention but on realising she was beyond help and cheating that a paedophile child abductor was being sought he decided to cut his losses and hide her body.