Was Madeleine McCann run over by accident and then carried off?

[John]

If there is evidence to suggest Madeleine left the apartment and was the victim of a hit and run, why are SY issuing letters of request to interview numerous witnesses and arguidos?

Why indeed?  Maybe they are really looking for the motorist who ran her over. 

As far as evidence is concerned, there is definitely support for the woke and wandered theory but little for any other now that SY has put the kibosh on Tannerman.   In fact, it has already been pointed out on another thread that several former British detectives have gone on record to support the woke and wandered theory, something they would never have done had there been no evidence to support it.  Ultimately it is the evidence which counts and it is the evidence which will determine the outcome of this case.  That open window and shutter is sure to feature in any resolution imo.

[Brietta]

Why indeed?  Maybe they are really looking for the motorist who ran her over. 

As far as evidence is concerned, there is definitely support for the woke and wandered theory but little for any other now that SY has put the kibosh on Tannerman.   In fact, it has already been pointed out on another thread that several former British detectives have gone on record to support the woke and wandered theory, something they would never have done had there been no evidence to support it.  Ultimately it is the evidence which counts and it is the evidence which will determine the outcome of this case.  That open window and shutter is sure to feature in any resolution imo.

I'm not sure they have entirely discarded Tannerman ... I think the DCI was enigmatic about that.

[Benice]

This was actually my first idea when it all happened.
But then someone says the accident would be heard by the local residents.

The other things are: closed patio doors and the gate and the pulled patio curtain. Madeleine would have never done this herself.

I don't think she would have gone off walking anywhere in her bare feet.    It would be too painful.

Also according to Kate -  she had never been in the habit of waking during the first few hours after going to bed  - only in the middle of the night -  and that night she was particularly tired.   

[Benice]

Alfred, maybe you will answer my question about Kate McCann and her admission that telling lies on occasion was not a unique phenomena to her?

Back to the op.  There is no evidence whatsoever that Kate McCann found an open window and raised shutter, only her say so. I find the woke and wandered theory the most plausible all considered and plenty of former English detectives have gone on record to agree.

I notice that you totally believe Kate when she says anything that suits you - i.e. (re telling lies) - and yet when she makes a claim that doesn't suit you i.e. (the window was open) - you question her veracity?

Anyone can make a case about anything using those tactics.

Thank goodness the real professional detectives investigating this case do not take that blinkered approach.

[Brietta]

I notice that you totally believe Kate when she says anything that suits you - i.e. (re telling lies) - and yet when she makes a claim that doesn't suit you i.e. (the window was open) - you question her veracity?

Anyone can make a case about anything using those tactics.

Thank goodness the real professional detectives investigating this case do not take that blinkered approach.

Unfortunately, IMO the lead detectives in the initial investigation did exactly that and took a one dimensional blinkered approach to Madeleine's disappearance ... which is why we are where we are now. 

Reading between the lines of the present tack being taken ... it seems apparent that all the groundwork had been done by dedicated officers and the evidence was there ready to be collated to enable the case to be solved and the real perpetrators taken off the streets.

[pathfinder73]

Checked statement, it says 10.30pm-11.45pm.
75 minutes not 90 minutes.

That's correct. Probably Kate talking about football at the table was on my mind 

[Alfred R Jones]

Why indeed?  Maybe they are really looking for the motorist who ran her over. 

As far as evidence is concerned, there is definitely support for the woke and wandered theory but little for any other now that SY has put the kibosh on Tannerman.   In fact, it has already been pointed out on another thread that several former British detectives have gone on record to support the woke and wandered theory, something they would never have done had there been no evidence to support it.  Ultimately it is the evidence which counts and it is the evidence which will determine the outcome of this case.  That open window and shutter is sure to feature in any resolution imo.

Does the open window and shutter support the "woke and wandered" theory in your view?

[John]

Does the open window and shutter support the "woke and wandered" theory in your view?

To answer that question you have to look at the facts and facts based on evidence.  I haven't come across a single detective, serving or retired, who is of the opinion that the children's bedroom window was used in an abduction.  One has therefore to question this entire situation.

* The evidence reveals no attempt to force the shutter and the only prints thereon are consistent with some one person having lifted it from the outside.  For the record, Gerry McCann claimed to have done just that after the discovery that Madeleine was missing.

* Several identifiable prints were also lifted from the window, later shown to be those of Kate McCann.

* No footprints or any sign of an intruder having climbed in that window were found.


To answer your question therefore, the evidence reveals that only the parents of the missing child had any contact with the bedroom window and shutter so draw your own conclusion.

Either the entire CSI operation was a complete load of bollocks or someone is telling fibs.

[lordpookles]

What motive would the parents have to mess with the window in this scenario? If that's what you suspect...

There are conditions I imagine like if they gave her some medication plus the leaving her in an unlocked apartment which might impel them to tell lies. I just can't conceive of them hiding the body etc if she wandered and they found it. I guess being a policeman you see some strange sh1t.

[Angelo222]

What motive would the parents have to mess with the window in this scenario? If that's what you suspect...

There are conditions I imagine like if they gave her some medication plus the leaving her in an unlocked apartment which might impel them to tell lies. I just can't conceive of them hiding the body etc if she wandered and they found it. I guess being a policeman you see some strange sh1t.

Maybe the missing child had a go, who knows since the scene was tampered with before witnesses arrived.  Witnesses found the window closed but the shutter up.

[pathfinder73]

No neglect because it's an abduction child not wandered out through unlocked door. Abduction was screamed from the start - there was no other possibility. There's no other possibility  Oh yes I know. What goes around comes around!

[lordpookles]

If this is the case I find the psychology of this situation interesting. These are not poor, uneducated individuals, which imo would correlate more with this type of crime. They come from a high socioeconomic background. Kate and Gerry would have to display narcissistic or even psychopathic tendencies. There would imo be some sort of personality disorder.

Also, they have relentlessly campaigned since day 1 to find Madeline or the "abductor" and when the campaign seemed to be running cold petitioned the authories to reopen the investigation. What is their motive for doing this if they were involved in some way? I know it is not uncommon for criminals of this type to revel in the attention and seek out TV interviews, but they have been going at this for 7 years now! Would love to hear what a forensic psychologist makes of this whole situation.

[Brietta]

Maybe the missing child had a go, who knows since the scene was tampered with before witnesses arrived.  Witnesses found the window closed but the shutter up.

I believe the window was closed because the twins were still sound asleep in the room and the night air was cold.

[Benice]

Maybe the missing child had a go, who knows since the scene was tampered with before witnesses arrived.  Witnesses found the window closed but the shutter up.

The first GNR officer who arrived also searched the entire apartment looking for Madeleine.   Would you describe his actions as 'tampering' with the scene?   

It was not a crime scene until it was established that Madeleine was not in the apartment - and that could not be established without first searching every inch of it - which is what any normal person would do. imo.

[pathfinder73]

The first GNR officer who arrived also searched the entire apartment looking for Madeleine.   Would you describe his actions as 'tampering' with the scene?   

It was not a crime scene until it was established that Madeleine was not in the apartment - and that could not be established without first searching every inch of it - which is what any normal person would do. imo.

Tampering with shutters has nothing to do with finding Madeleine. Instead of examining shutters and thinking they're Sherlock Holmes they should be out looking for a missing child!