A Thread To Discuss Alfred's Theory in detail.

[faithlilly]

I am not going to be tied down to any specific bloodline.  I am not in the business of naming people.  I have made that clear before.

Lets be absolutely clear on that.

That's not what I asked sadie. It'd be great if you'd answer the question I did ask.

[Brietta]

IMO It would be the first thing to be done on entering the room -  before making any approach at all to Madeleine.

If as Colom suggests, Madeleine was persuaded that she was going to see her parents, she may not have been picked up at all in the bedroom and could have walked to the front door herself.

She could have walked the route followed by the GNR sniffer dogs ... perhaps bare feet may have enabled the scent to linger in the enclosed pathways longer than under normal circumstances.

[pathfinder73]

You beat me to it! I was about to say something similar. After all why make it simple when it is so easy to complicate matters? Making it complicated is the true sign of a master criminal; only a rank amateur would go for a simple plan  &%+((£

I think the village idiot was involved. The yard better bring him in for questioning 

[stephen25000]

I think the village idiot was involved. The yard better bring him in for questioning 

 

[Alice Purjorick]

I think the village idiot was involved. The yard better bring him in for questioning 

And if one took all village idiots and put them in one village this guy would remain the village idiot 

[lordpookles]

Personally if it wasnt for the dogs, I too think the child could have easily been taken out of the apartment.

The front door, in pick her up, hush her calm her, going to see mum etc as a treat, carry her out, walk left out of the car park to a waiting car gone.............less then 5 minutes.

I think if it was abduction myself personally it was a woman and it was early 9.30 tops....and she knew the women or had met her....and i have said that before.

YES I found the McCanns suspicious and still do, but if it wasnt for the dogs I would give them the benefit of the doubt, no dogs then I too would think she could have simply been taken away.  The dogs make me uneasy and I need to know why they alerted as they did.

And I dont care what people say thats what i think.....

Yeah, if it wasn't for the dogs. This is why I too find it hard to completely believe them. You know there is always the chance that cadaver scent was spread around the apartment plus car given Amaral's form he could have instructed his officers to do this. I just can't give this idea much credit though as it's just another conspiracy theory with incomplete information(a large amount of scenarios could be concocted).

A key point for me is they recovered material from the scene for DNA testing at the spots they alerted. We can talk about the accuracy of the dogs, inducing the dogs to alert, what they alert to etc... regardless it's very hard to simply dismiss even though literally speaking this is just dogs barking. SY on the other hand I assume have experts at hand to advise.

[VIXTE]

I think the village idiot was involved. The yard better bring him in for questioning 

It might have been the village idiot. Someone that no one thinks would be able to do such thing.
Similar thing happened in my mum's village, an older lady was insulted and when the police figured out whodunnit everyone was left shocked.

[Eleanor]

Yeah, if it wasn't for the dogs. This is why I too find it hard to completely believe them. You know there is always the chance that cadaver scent was spread around the apartment plus car given Amaral's form he could have instructed his officers to do this. I just can't give this idea much credit though as it's just another conspiracy theory with incomplete information(a large amount of scenarios could be concocted).

A key point for me is they recovered material from the scene for DNA testing at the spots they alerted. We can talk about the accuracy of the dogs, inducing the dogs to alert, what they alert to etc... regardless it's very hard to simply dismiss even though literally speaking this is just dogs barking. SY on the other hand I assume have experts at hand to advise.

Yes, the dogs did alert, and Yes, something was recovered.  But nothing that could be attributed to Madeleine directly.

Personally, I don't believe that Amaral, or anyone else, distributed anything.  But so often it is forgotten that Eddie was originally trained as a Search and Rescue Dog.  He was trained to scent Blood.  The Cadaver bit came much later.  And since even my dog could fid a Cadaver if there was one, then I cannot place any importance on this.

And of course, the Chain of Evidence was appallingly bad.

I am not going to bore you all yet again on what a Cadaver Dog will or won't react to in the absence of a corpse, but it is a subject for much conjecture.

Contrary to popular belief, I am not at all emotional about this.  I started using Logic about seven years ago.  Nothing since has ever given me any reason to suspect The McCanns.

[Brietta]

Yes, the dogs did alert, and Yes, something was recovered.  But nothing that could be attributed to Madeleine directly.

Personally, I don't believe that Amaral, or anyone else, distributed anything.  But so often it is forgotten that Eddie was originally trained as a Search and Rescue Dog.  He was trained to scent Blood.  The Cadaver bit came much later.  And since even my dog could fid a Cadaver if there was one, then I cannot place any importance on this.

And of course, the Chain of Evidence was appallingly bad.

I am not going to bore you all yet again on what a Cadaver Dog will or won't react to in the absence of a corpse, but it is a subject for much conjecture.

Contrary to popular belief, I am not at all emotional about this.  I started using Logic about seven years ago.  Nothing since has ever given me any reason to suspect The McCanns.

I also consider that logic dictates my attitude not emotion.

I came to this last year when Madeleine's case was reopened. 
Until then I was blissfully unaware of the blog and social media campaigns against Madeleine and her parents; was not on first name terms with Eddie and Keela; had never heard of Dr Amaral or his book; judicial secrecy? I knew and cared as much about that as 'sources close to the investigation' did. 
I am new enough to know first hand that it is a very small incestuous world we on the McCann boards inhabit; if the majority of the populace knew even half of what was being said they would be horrified ... I know I was. 

I am not the Brain of Britain by any means but saw Hideho's videos for what they are almost immediately and I couldn't believe what I was seeing when I saw Eddie and Keela in action for the first time.

I have never seen anything that remotely links Madeleine's parents to her disappearance only unsubstantiated innuendo. 

[Eleanor]

I also consider that logic dictates my attitude not emotion.

I came to this last year when Madeleine's case was reopened. 
Until then I was blissfully unaware of the blog and social media campaigns against Madeleine and her parents; was not on first name terms with Eddie and Keela; had never heard of Dr Amaral or his book; judicial secrecy? I knew and cared as much about that as 'sources close to the investigation' did. 
I am new enough to know first hand that it is a very small incestuous world we on the McCann boards inhabit; if the majority of the populace knew even half of what was being said they would be horrified ... I know I was. 

I am not the Brain of Britain by any means but saw Hideho's videos for what they are almost immediately and I couldn't believe what I was seeing when I saw Eddie and Keela in action for the first time.

I have never seen anything that remotely links Madeleine's parents to her disappearance only unsubstantiated innuendo.

You and me, both from different worlds.  And I have forgotten most of the terrible things that were said.  I no longer know if that was emotive.  I only know that it was so wrong.

To this day there is nothing to connect The Mccanns to the disappearance of their daughter, and I defy any person to gainsay me.
But no one ever does.

However, this Forum allows everyone to express their opinions, and so, I cannot even want to prevent that.

[VIXTE]

It was the McCanns who pushed for the British dogs to come to PDL. It took time to persuade the PJ to accept this. There was a petition. I remember signing this petition in 2007 and it indicated the time was running out for these British dogs and PJ has to act quickly. It was signed by many people on forums.

[Eleanor]

It was the McCanns who pushed for the British dogs to come to PDL. It took time to persuade the PJ to accept this. There was a petition. I remember signing this petition in 2007 and it indicated the time was running out for these British dogs and PJ has to act quickly. It was signed by many people on forums.

I don't remember this in particular.  But as I understood it at the time, it was so much more to scout the immediate area of Praia da Luz in the search for a body that might have been abandoned.  It was never intended initially to search the appartment or anything to do with The McCanns.  It was only Amaral who decided that.

But come as it may.  After that decision, what followed was a cock up the like of which one might be beggared to believe.

Martin Grime was retired and was in the process of setting up a Private Company.  We were never told of how much money he earned from that one.  Not that it was any of my business.

Martin Grime then went on to earn 96,000 Pounds in Jersey, on the back of his adulterated and grossly edited Video in Praia da Luz.  He should be mortally ashamed.  He was the one who did so much damage.  He was the one who very nearly convinced me of what I now know to be absolute rubbish.
The bloody dog was simply not fit for purpose.

[faithlilly]

It was the McCanns who pushed for the British dogs to come to PDL. It took time to persuade the PJ to accept this. There was a petition. I remember signing this petition in 2007 and it indicated the time was running out for these British dogs and PJ has to act quickly. It was signed by many people on forums.

Your post is complete nonsense. Anyone who knows anything about the case knows that so why are these myths being allowed to be perpetrated on this forum ?

[colombosstogey]

Yeah, if it wasn't for the dogs. This is why I too find it hard to completely believe them. You know there is always the chance that cadaver scent was spread around the apartment plus car given Amaral's form he could have instructed his officers to do this. I just can't give this idea much credit though as it's just another conspiracy theory with incomplete information(a large amount of scenarios could be concocted).

A key point for me is they recovered material from the scene for DNA testing at the spots they alerted. We can talk about the accuracy of the dogs, inducing the dogs to alert, what they alert to etc... regardless it's very hard to simply dismiss even though literally speaking this is just dogs barking. SY on the other hand I assume have experts at hand to advise.

Yes your right lordpookles about forensic materials etc.....

To spread cadavarien scent deliberately well it would be hard to do. First you have to get the right stuff, and its volitile.

Why only put it on her clothing etc, and not the husbands? No I for one believe all that is a conspiracy theory.

The one thing i did think though is if the child was harmed in the apartment by a bungled burglary or even abused and killed why take her body away? It makes no sense.

All you have to do is put her back in the bed, cover her up, and she simply looks asleep......You would simply find her dead in the morning......sorry dont mean to be insensitive here.

Why remove her.

Nothing of this case makes any sense.....

The only reasons why you would remove her for me is because there is clear DNA on her body belonging to someone perhaps she knew......

Why remove her if she is dead?

thats the only reason i can think of.........

ALSO and it has to be discussed I am sorry, if she was sexually abused in the apartment by a PERB then there would have been their DNA as well...it can be left all over the place.....unless your an expert you would not even think about it.....

IF this perpetrator was sexuall predator and sexually abused her, then he/she would be known about as a pedophile takes a long time to jump over from looking and finding their type, to actually doing it, and I expect this person would have already been on a register.

I think i mentioned before when i was 11, a neighbour was trying to groom me slowly and exposing himself etc, and i told my brother, and this guy was removed fast this was in the Forces. He was if my memory serves me a good looking Asian guy, and friends with my dad, so at first i was not scared of him, until he got bold......

Nope nothing makes sense of this case.........I still think whoever took her she knew them.

Hum did the parents do it, why are so many people certain they did.... &%+((£

I think partly for me they were not truthful at the beginning..........and one lies begets another........until things dont make sense. Does that mean they harmed their daughter? No it means perhaps they were liberal in their checking and needed to cover it all up, otherwise they feared they would be ridiculed as professionals for leaving their children for so long unattended each night.

We only have the 3rd May checks to go by, I personally do not believe they were check so often as a normal course of action.

Anyway....will we ever get closure. I hope so......because if it was a stranger or even a friend etc, they need to be caught and put away.......mind you the other thing i find of interest......a leopard never changes its spots.

If it was a pedophile, they got away with it, they would be bold and would try again, I am convinced of that....but nothing seems to have happened to any children since ..... all very odd........which brings it down to travellers, or dead people perhaps, or migrants.......phew...brain overload lol.

[Benice]

That's far too easy WS - quickly in and out job done. Instead they waste time they haven't got by telling the whole world, 'here we are,' by opening shutters and a window in the night like it's normal before anyone has even been abducted *&*%£

Waste time?   How many seconds does it take to open the shutters and one window?

It seems I can either believe:-

 (a) one or more of the reasons already given  for an intruder to open the window, all credible IMO  -
or

 (b)  I can believe that a cunning plan was devised by Gerry & Kate  i.e. to tell the police that Kate found the shutter and window open - and as neither of them had opened them  - then that is proof that an intruder did.

I can just imagine the conversation:

Gerry to Kate: You open the windows and shutter- and we'll tell the police they were definitely closed when we left for dinner but you found them both open on your 10p.m. check.

Kate:-   Oh what a good idea.

Gerry:-  Yes - we'll tell them the shutters were forced,  jemmied, smashed  and broken when you got back.

Kate:-   Erm will the police believe that?  They won't even have been forced -  let alone jemmied or smashed?

Gerry :- That's OK -  we'll just tell our families they were jemmied and smashed.   Obviously - they will believe us - and once the police know that all our relatives believe us - then they will believe us too!    Simples

Kate:-    Oh of course - why didn't I think of that.

Gerry :-   And don't forget to clean the window of any fingerprints - except your own.   In fact don't just leave one print - leave a whole set.

Kate:-   - Gosh yes - that will be even more proof that we didn't open the window ourselves.

Gerry:-    And then -  just to make absolutely sure that the police believe that we DID find the window and shutters open - guess what I'm going to do....

Kate:-     Oh do tell - I can't wait

Gerry:-    I'm going to make sure I close them again ............ BEFORE the police arrive!!

Kate:-      Wow what a master-stroke!   That will definitely convince them.  You're so clever!
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Hmmm,,,,,,,,,,,, sorry but (b)  doesn't quite work for me.