The lockable from outside kitchen window. Why is this disputed ?

[Angelo222]

I find it hard to believe he would include Julie Mugford so much in his plans without actually getting her there as his alibi if he trusted her so much.

I regret to say that in that same situation I reckon at least 2 of my relatives would have given the same answers if they had been true.  An arrogant murdering liar would just have discredited his girlfriend and immediately got the men on side with tales about what a neurotic nightmare she's been since they'd split up.

He had been telling her for months how much he hated his family and it became second nature to him. I take it you are familiar with the sleeping tablets incident and what followed?  Jeremy took the opportunity that Sheila would be at the farmhouse with her sons to bump them all off.  If Julie had been at Goldhanger I doubt very much he would have done it.  I think Julie just played along with his rantings for a quiet life.

[Myster]

Yes, doesn't really help himself by announcing that incite, does he?!

Thank you both for the explanation of the window.  I grew up with sash windows with rotating locks:  it's interesting to see how easily they can be opened with a knife, but I would have though impossible to close again from the outside.  I still wouldn't have thought it was easy to shut the casement window:  although it might be theoretically possible on a new catch, the building looks like so many period buildings I've experienced where in reality it's had so many layers of paint it would be quite stiff, and it would also require a latch half way up the window to be pulled down:  isn't this the window the police looked through, with the lights on whilst they were in darkness outside?  If so, it would have been possible to see the second latch not in place even in outline from a slight distance.

As I posted elsewhere, is it possible SC was lying in wait for JC to arrive, knowing his preferred entrance through a downstairs window?  The'd both been to boarding school - this kind of thing happens quite a lot, and I can't imagine JC was the only teenager from that house who maybe went off to the pub without his parents knowing.  Even a murderer being arrogant would spot the stupidity of announcing he went in and out of the house through the windows if they've set the scene to be a murder-suicide by someone inside.

One new thing I've just learned from Lee's book (p.190) is that although all the downstair's windows were checked to be secure by DCI Taff Jones at around 9:15am, they had also been examined earlier by two police officers who found the shower room and kitchen fanlight to be unfastened. One of them, Sgt Stephen Golding stated in his w/s that he secured both so that they couldn't be moved but failed to inform his superiors.

So JB could have parked his bike when he arrived near the Shower room window on the opposite side of the house to where the labrador was kept in a barn, so as not to disturb it. Then exited by the same window a lot more easily than the one in the kitchen, again without causing the dog to bark, jumped straight onto the bike, headed back home, and took a chance that the police wouldn't discover that the window was left unfastened.

There was no need for Sheila to wait with a rifle in Nevill's back while he phoned his son, or near the Shower room window had she killed mum, dad and her sons in advance. It makes no sense for her to beckon her brother over from 3 miles away in the middle of the night simply to kill him, because if she was determined to commit suicide, inherited money would be no use to her.

[Holly Goodhead]

This is the reason a third party intruder has always been discounted from this case.  Only Jeremy Bamber knew how to get in and out of a supposedly secure farmhouse and he was well practiced in the art.  Curiously, Sheila was also known to climb out her bedroom window and shim down a strategically placed ladder so she could escape for a night out.

After the murders Jeremy had to gain access to the farmhouse before going abroad.  Secretary Barbara Wilson kept the keys but Jerry didn't want to alert her in case she told the police so again entered the farmhouse via his favourite unsecured downstairs window.  Some people might ask why admit to this?  The simple answer is another question, why admit the robbery at Osea?

Answer:  Because he knew Julie Mugford had already told the police.

A UK based jury would not return a verdict of guilty based on the fact JB was able to enter covertly and MIGHT have been able to exit covertly leaving a latch fully closed.  Especially when initially EP signed off the windows and doors as locked securely from inside.

Pre modern windows it was not unusual for people to gain entry via windows when losing keys or locking themselves out or no one was around to let them in. 

If JB is guilty why authorise EP to handover the keys to his relatives.  Surely he would be eager to get in, seize control, and breathe a sigh of relief.

[Passer-by]

I posted the ide that she might have made NB call JB over because over the large number of familcides which have been studied since in other countries, it is a common feature to lie and wait for family members who are expected to visit in order to kill them as well.  I cited an incident in May when a man even went and collected his unsuspecting niece so he could kill her too.  A 'family annihilator' or someone who commits Familicide is not doing it for the money.

From Wikipedia:

"The internal logic for family annihilation can stem from a number of sources.

David Wilson of Birmingham City University has divided these cases into four groups: anomic, disappointed, self-righteous and paranoid.

In this typology, the anomic killer sees his family purely as a status symbol; when his economic status collapses, he sees them as surplus to requirements. The disappointed killer seeks to punish the family for not living up to his ideals of family life. The self-righteous killer destroys the family to exact revenge upon the mother, in an act that he blames on her. Finally, the paranoid killer kills their family in what they imagine to be an attempt to protect them from something even worse."

I would suggest SC fell into the fourth category.

[Myster]

If JB is guilty why authorise EP to handover the keys to his relatives.  Surely he would be eager to get in, seize control, and breathe a sigh of relief.

Because he didn't want to go into WHF, frightened of seeing the remnants of his handiwork. He had to be coaxed by Ann Eaton to enter the bedrooms, more so the one where the twins slept!

[Passer-by]

But didn't she and Julie testify he also stared with terror at SC's bedroom, but she wasn't found dead in there - and as he hadn't asked where the bodies were found he wouldn't have known that.

Pretty damn casual if you're the murderer to let the world and his wife clean up the house:  AE sounds like she was there like a Woolly Bear!  (I have to say, the thing I find sickest of any of it - even sicker than the murders I'm afraid - it's AE getting her 8 year old daughter to help put new sheets on the Twins's beds a few days after they were murdered in them.  AND THEN LIVING THERE??!  I mean sheez:  imagine cooking dinner every night standing right next to where your relative was murdered, or getting out of bed and putting your slippers on right on the spot a dead body lay  &%+((£ )

If he was cold-blooded enough to plan and execute 5 murders and slug several shots into a sleeping child sucking his thumb, I can't believe he'd have any problem reviewing his handiwork:  Mugford claimed it was an act - if so, it was pretty risky letting everyone else clean up and hit for evidence.

[Myster]

But that was all an act, just like his Oscar-losing performance at the funeral, so maybe you don't have much belief in what Bamber said to Julie at the cottage - "I should have been an actor!"

[Passer-by]

Sorry, should have said 'hunt' not 'hit'

I have a problem with the credibility of Julie as a witness, especially has her mates were other witnesses and a lot if them seem to revise their statements later so they corroborated.  She did get the mercenary plumber spectacularly wrong and so would have been quite content to send that innocent man down if he hadn't been fortunate enough to have an alibi.

[Holly Goodhead]

But didn't she and Julie testify he also stared with terror at SC's bedroom, but she wasn't found dead in there - and as he hadn't asked where the bodies were found he wouldn't have known that.

Pretty damn casual if you're the murderer to let the world and his wife clean up the house:  AE sounds like she was there like a Woolly Bear!  (I have to say, the thing I find sickest of any of it - even sicker than the murders I'm afraid - it's AE getting her 8 year old daughter to help put new sheets on the Twins's beds a few days after they were murdered in them.  AND THEN LIVING THERE??!  I mean sheez:  imagine cooking dinner every night standing right next to where your relative was murdered, or getting out of bed and putting your slippers on right on the spot a dead body lay  &%+((£ )

If he was cold-blooded enough to plan and execute 5 murders and slug several shots into a sleeping child sucking his thumb, I can't believe he'd have any problem reviewing his handiwork:  Mugford claimed it was an act - if so, it was pretty risky letting everyone else clean up and hit for evidence.

I honestly do not think I could have brought myself to step inside WHF again whether I was JB or a member of the extended family.

P388 of CAL's book:

"In July [2001], a team of Metropolitan Police officers began a four-month investigation into the case, which included visiting White House Farm, then home to Ann Easton and her family, to take samples from areas of bloodstaining in the master bedroom for further DNA tests.  Two areas of staining, one on the underlay by the door to the landing and another on the floorboards near the box room, tested positive for blood.  They also took possession of a beside lamp which the officer in charge recognised from the original crime scene photographs, the rings June has been wearing on the night of her murder, and Sheila's jewellery box, containing a piece of her fingernail."

[Holly Goodhead]

I posted the ide that she might have made NB call JB over because over the large number of familcides which have been studied since in other countries, it is a common feature to lie and wait for family members who are expected to visit in order to kill them as well.  I cited an incident in May when a man even went and collected his unsuspecting niece so he could kill her too.  A 'family annihilator' or someone who commits Familicide is not doing it for the money.

From Wikipedia:

"The internal logic for family annihilation can stem from a number of sources.

David Wilson of Birmingham City University has divided these cases into four groups: anomic, disappointed, self-righteous and paranoid.

In this typology, the anomic killer sees his family purely as a status symbol; when his economic status collapses, he sees them as surplus to requirements. The disappointed killer seeks to punish the family for not living up to his ideals of family life. The self-righteous killer destroys the family to exact revenge upon the mother, in an act that he blames on her. Finally, the paranoid killer kills their family in what they imagine to be an attempt to protect them from something even worse."

I would suggest SC fell into the fourth category.

I think in the end it will transpire that the root cause of the murders/suicide was an adoption that went wrong from the beginning (June's mental illness as a result of her decision to adopt SC) with the catalyst being SC's reunion with her birth mother:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4513.msg163034#msg163034

http://www.adoptionunchartedwaters.com/understanding-adoptees-who-kill.php

http://www.adoptionunchartedwaters.com/catathymic-violence.php

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0195082737

Referred to in CAL's book P22:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Primal-Wound-Understanding-adopted-child/dp/1905664761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1438376711&sr=8-1&keywords=nancy+verrier

[Myster]

I think your fingers slipped and typed suicide by mistake.

[Passer-by]

I honestly do not think I could have brought myself to step inside WHF again whether I was JB or a member of the extended family.

P388 of CAL's book:

"In July [2001], a team of Metropolitan Police officers began a four-month investigation into the case, which included visiting White House Farm, then home to Ann Easton and her family, to take samples from areas of bloodstaining in the master bedroom for further DNA tests.  Two areas of staining, one on the underlay by the door to the landing and another on the floorboards near the box room, tested positive for blood.  They also took possession of a beside lamp which the officer in charge recognised from the original crime scene photographs, the rings June has been wearing on the night of her murder, and Sheila's jewellery box, containing a piece of her fingernail."

Quite.  One wonders whether Bamber was the only person with a motive, an opportunity and the correct disposition . . .

[John]

One new thing I've just learned from Lee's book (p.190) is that although all the downstair's windows were checked to be secure by DCI Taff Jones at around 9:15am, they had also been examined earlier by two police officers who found the shower room and kitchen fanlight to be unfastened. One of them, Sgt Stephen Golding stated in his w/s that he secured both so that they couldn't be moved but failed to inform his superiors.

So JB could have parked his bike when he arrived near the Shower room window on the opposite side of the house to where the labrador was kept in a barn, so as not to disturb it. Then exited by the same window a lot more easily than the one in the kitchen, again without causing the dog to bark, jumped straight onto the bike, headed back home, and took a chance that the police wouldn't discover that the window was left unfastened.

There was no need for Sheila to wait with a rifle in Nevill's back while he phoned his son, or near the Shower room window had she killed mum, dad and her sons in advance. It makes no sense for her to beckon her brother over from 3 miles away in the middle of the night simply to kill him, because if she was determined to commit suicide, inherited money would be no use to her.

Excellent work Myster.        The only avenue left to Jerry and his believers is to attempt to discredit Sheila but it won't work.

[John]

A UK based jury would not return a verdict of guilty based on the fact JB was able to enter covertly and MIGHT have been able to exit covertly leaving a latch fully closed.  Especially when initially EP signed off the windows and doors as locked securely from inside.

Pre modern windows it was not unusual for people to gain entry via windows when losing keys or locking themselves out or no one was around to let them in. 

If JB is guilty why authorise EP to handover the keys to his relatives.  Surely he would be eager to get in, seize control, and breathe a sigh of relief.

A jury would look at the evidence and come to the one and only conclusion available to them.  Only one person was capable of getting into and out of the locked and secure farmhouse and that was Jerry.

He planned to implicate Sheila from the outset otherwise he would have faked a break and entry.  The script he used when he initially phoned Essex Police and thereafter when first confronted by them at the farmhouse all point to this. 

[Passer-by]

A jury would look at the evidence and come to the one and only conclusion available to them.  Only one person was capable of getting into and out of the locked and secure farmhouse and that was Jerry.

He planned to implicate Sheila from the outset otherwise he would have faked a break and entry.  The script he used when he initially phoned Essex Police and thereafter when first confronted by them at the farmhouse all point to this.

Not necessarily:  NB could have called JB under duress at gunpoint or it could even be the case someone pretended to be NB and called JB, hoping to lure him up there as well.  Apparently I've stunned both my aunt and cousin several times when I've phoned them - we have very little phone contact generally - because for a few moments they thought it was my mother (whom they spoke to regularly) - who is dead:  apparently we sound quite alike.

If one person entered the house by the window, anyone could.