Author Topic: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.  (Read 23482 times)

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Offline Parky41

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #75 on: July 09, 2019, 09:42:51 AM »
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.4560.html

[This is what I mean about misquoting me. I said the "identification" by the witnesses on the Newbattle Road may have been a mistaken identification - that in no way suggests the murderer was MK - it suggests he might have been the person seen by those witnesses as he made his way up the Newbattle Road for beer that evening. Perfectly innocent reason for being there, potentially perfectly innocent mistake by the witnesses.]


If Ms Lean has the information that MK walked that route for beer that evening, she is also aware what time this was at? MK was not on Newbattle R'd. at the time of sightings, by these witnesses. Little pieces of misinformation accumulated, yet again to add weight, to what is becoming exceptionally flimsy, the more it is examined. IMO.

Offline Nicholas

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #76 on: July 09, 2019, 04:11:17 PM »
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.4560.html

[This is what I mean about misquoting me. I said the "identification" by the witnesses on the Newbattle Road may have been a mistaken identification - that in no way suggests the murderer was MK - it suggests he might have been the person seen by those witnesses as he made his way up the Newbattle Road for beer that evening. Perfectly innocent reason for being there, potentially perfectly innocent mistake by the witnesses.]


If Ms Lean has the information that MK walked that route for beer that evening, she is also aware what time this was at? MK was not on Newbattle R'd. at the time of sightings, by these witnesses. Little pieces of misinformation accumulated, yet again to add weight, to what is becoming exceptionally flimsy, the more it is examined. IMO.

Information the police had around 16 years ago. Around the same 16 years ago when Corrine Mitchell heard on the grapevine in Midlothian that there was a women who knew nothing about the CJS but thought her son might be innocent. Go figure.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 05:25:31 PM by Nicholas »
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Offline Nicholas

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #77 on: July 09, 2019, 05:27:24 PM »
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.4560.html

[This is what I mean about misquoting me. I said the "identification" by the witnesses on the Newbattle Road may have been a mistaken identification - that in no way suggests the murderer was MK - it suggests he might have been the person seen by those witnesses as he made his way up the Newbattle Road for beer that evening. Perfectly innocent reason for being there, potentially perfectly innocent mistake by the witnesses.]


If Ms Lean has the information that MK walked that route for beer that evening, she is also aware what time this was at? MK was not on Newbattle R'd. at the time of sightings, by these witnesses. Little pieces of misinformation accumulated, yet again to add weight, to what is becoming exceptionally flimsy, the more it is examined. IMO.

And you can bet your bottom dollar that point was in one of the 30-40 boxes presented to and knocked back by the SCCRC! (She gained access to the files in 2009).
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Offline Nicholas

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #78 on: July 09, 2019, 11:56:25 PM »
And you can bet your bottom dollar that point was in one of the 30-40 boxes presented to and knocked back by the SCCRC! (She gained access to the files in 2009).

She removed 29 boxes of evidence from the charity’s Glasgow office this week.
Read more at https://thirdforcenews.org.uk/tfn-news/luke-mitchells-mum-blasts-charity-for-lack-of-support#JcY2Txc7YFyQB83e.99

 *&^^&
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Offline Nicholas

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #79 on: July 10, 2019, 03:31:57 PM »
Really? No time to address the mis quotes of information until Monday, first response was within an hour of saying this.

My study just now is the play on 'words' the eagerness to respond , simply for attention of 'mis-information' put forth. What truly drives a person caught within lies?

“Paltering is the active use of truthful statements to convey a misleading impression. Across 2 pilot studies and 6 experiments, we identify paltering as a distinct form of deception. Paltering differs from lying by omission (the passive omission of relevant information) and lying by commission (the active use of false statements). Our findings reveal that paltering is common in negotiations and that many negotiators prefer to palter than to lie by commission. Paltering, however, may promote conflict fueled by self-serving interpretations; palterers focus on the veracity of their statements (“I told the truth”), whereas targets focus on the misleading impression palters convey (“I was misled”). We also find that targets perceive palters to be especially unethical when palters are used in response to direct questions as opposed to when they are unprompted. Taken together, we show that paltering is a common, but risky, negotiation tactic. Compared with negotiators who tell the truth, negotiators who palter are likely to claim additional value, but increase the likelihood of impasse and harm to their reputations.

“We identify paltering as a distinct form of deception. Unlike lies by omission, paltering involves the active use of statements to create a false impression. Unlike lies by commission, paltering involves the use of truthful statements to mislead others. Importantly, paltering readily enables self-serving assessments of morality. By contrast, if discovered, targets harshly judge palterers who actively misled them. This contrast identifies a broken mental model. How greatly this broken model matters depends on how likely paltering is likely to be discovered relative to other deception tactics. Most importantly, we identify paltering as not only a distinct form of deception, but also a widely employed tactic in negotiations.
https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/psp-pspi0000081.pdf
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Offline Nicholas

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #80 on: July 11, 2019, 05:28:50 AM »
What reason would the police have for deleting Luke Mitchell’s texts?

What time did he initially phone the police?

(The police operator who took Luke’s call asking police to come quickly noted, “The laddies in a right states”) (Excerpt from No Smoke)

Sandra Lean states here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg452391.html#msg452391

Luke deleting texts and call history
“He had no recollection of deleting texts. We now know that the call history was deleted just after 12.30am on July 1st - when the phone was in the possession of the police. We also know a text was sent from Luke's phone in this same time period and, although Luke was later grilled about "checking his voicemail" while standing on the path, waiting for the police, the records show, quite clearly, that this was a log of an incoming voicemail from Corinne asking where he was, being recorded on his phone, not Luke checking it . Since the police clearly interfered with the phone by deleting the call record  and allowing a text to be sent while the phone was in their possession, we can never be sure if it was Luke who deleted the earlier texts or not. All we have are his police statements that he had no recollection of doing so - from that, the police questioned him about what reasons he might have had for deleting them. Fair enough, you'd think, but that was exactly the line of questioning they used  when questioning him about why he thought Jodi hadn't turned up. Luke tried to think of various reasons and they later used that against him to suggest he was "lying." (Phone records and interview transcripts available


Saying he said “he had no recollection of deleting texts” doesn’t mean he didn’t.

What did this text allegedly sent by police say exactly and who was it sent to?

Could an explanation for this simply be the police logged the wrong time down for the time they seized the phone?

What time did police log Luke getting in the Land Rover and seizing his phone and what time did they arrive at the station?  Do all the times tally up? What officer logged the time? Had he been to the crime scene? Was the officer in a state of shock?

He also claims that when police arrived at the murder scene he was asked to take an officer to the body.
“I couldn’t. I couldn’t bring myself to go back over the wall,” said Mitchell. “Then an officer put me in the back of a police Land Rover and took my phone off me.”
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/killer-luke-mitchell-breaks-silence-with-letter-in-own-words-1-2279505

Did the police actually take him phone when in got in the Land Rover or is this a figure of speech? What do police notes/logs suggest?

Are there police statements stating an officer accidentally deleted Luke’s texts?

And what time period? 12.30am onwards? What time exactly?

Excerpt from “No Smoke”
“Texts on both Judy’s and Luke’s phone had been erased, so there is nothing to prove what was said in those texts. However, if this was the first point at which Luke became aware that he would be seeing Jodi that night (Since she was still “grounded”) an important issue arises. There are only 11-16 minutes between those texts being exchanged, and the sighting by Andrina Bryson at the Easthouses end of the path. It is not possible for Luke to have made the journey, on foot, from his home to the Easthouses end of the path in that time. Yet, what reason would he have, prior to that time, to be anywhere near the path? He believed he was not meeting Jodi because she had been grounded.
.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 08:47:42 AM by Nicholas »
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Offline Nicholas

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #81 on: July 11, 2019, 10:34:01 AM »
“Search party events 3” by Billy Middleton of now defunct WAP Organisation http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=19.0

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EOPKAviAgYM

22.39 Luke receives a text message on his phone from Judy

“Right Toad say night to Luke, that’s you grounded for another week”


Evidence her daughter had told her she’d be with Luke.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 12:12:05 PM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #82 on: July 11, 2019, 01:27:41 PM »
Further evidence of WAP putting out disingenuous and misleading information into the public domain

“Search party events 3” by Billy Middleton of now defunct WAP Organisation http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=19.0

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EOPKAviAgYM

22.39 Luke receives a text message on his phone from Judy

“Right Toad say night to Luke, that’s you grounded for another week”


THE Jodi Jones murder trial was told yesterday that the record of Luke Mitchell's phone had been wiped out hours after the schoolgirl died.

A "Love U" text message from Kimberley Thomson, a former girlfriend of Mr Mitchell's, three days before the murder, had also been deleted, along with Judith Jones's attempt to contact her daughter to tell her she was "grounded" for staying out late.

Derek Morris, 56, from Lothian and Borders Police technical support unit, said he had carried out tests on Mr Mitchell's mobile phone the day after Jodi's death.

Mr Morris said the phone's record of last numbers dialled showed only one call instead of the usual 10. It was to Mr Mitchell's mother at 39 minutes past midnight. "That was the only one listed. He must have deleted the call register and started again, " said Mr Morris.

Records from the mobile phone company listed a call from Mr Mitchell's mobile to his mother at 31 minutes past midnight. Mr Morris said he thought the records had been deleted between the two calls.

“Mr Morris also described how he had carried out more sophisticated tests on the phone's SIM card to try to recover deleted messages.

Both the inbox and outbox were empty, but the SIM card revealed a message received on the evening of Friday, June 27, 2003, saying: "Luke its Kim im at ma grans can u phone mi on (number) Love u xKimx" Another message on the SIM card at 10.41pm from Jodi's mother read: "2 wks grounding toad . . . Say bye 2 luke".

In questioning, Mr Findlay and Mr Morris agreed that text messages on Jodi's mother's mobile had also been deleted and there was nothing unusual about people doing that.

Alan Turnbull QC, for the prosecution, told the jury that before the Crown case closes, probably some time next week, he would be asking experts about a computer found in the bedroom of Shane Mitchell, Mr Mitchell's brother.

The court has heard that someone made a 22-minute internet connection from the Mitchell home in Newbattle, Dalkeith, just before 5pm on June 30, 2003.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12406880.phone-record-of-jodi-murder-accused-wiped/
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 01:39:37 PM by Nicholas »
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Offline Nicholas

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #83 on: July 11, 2019, 02:21:55 PM »
“Search party events 3” by Billy Middleton of now defunct WAP Organisation http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=19.0

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EOPKAviAgYM

22.39 Luke receives a text message on his phone from Judy

“Right Toad say night to Luke, that’s you grounded for another week”


Most of the information on the WAP forum at the time came from Luke Mitchell. Information he and his mother had given Sandra Lean in order to help her write the chapter in her book.

Sandra Lean didn’t get sight of the working case files until sometime in 2009/10.

Meaning Sandra Lean had an opportunity to correct misleading information in the public domain as early as 2009/10.
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #84 on: July 11, 2019, 02:38:09 PM »

Luke deleting texts and call history
“He had no recollection of deleting texts. We now know that the call history was deleted just after 12.30am on July 1st - when the phone was in the possession of the police. We also know a text was sent from Luke's phone in this same time period and, although Luke was later grilled about "checking his voicemail" while standing on the path, waiting for the police, the records show, quite clearly, that this was a log of an incoming voicemail from Corinne asking where he was, being recorded on his phone, not Luke checking it . Since the police clearly interfered with the phone by deleting the call record  and allowing a text to be sent while the phone was in their possession, we can never be sure if it was Luke who deleted the earlier texts or not. All we have are his police statements that he had no recollection of doing so - from that, the police questioned him about what reasons he might have had for deleting them. Fair enough, you'd think, but that was exactly the line of questioning they used  when questioning him about why he thought Jodi hadn't turned up. Luke tried to think of various reasons and they later used that against him to suggest he was "lying." (Phone records and interview transcripts available


What date is Sandra Lean referring to when these questions are being posed to Luke? His first interview as a witness or the times he was interviewed as a suspect?

And Donald Findlay QC and his team failed to spot this but Sandra Lean has?

And David Morris from L&B tech support also didn’t notice this? Or are Luke Mitchell’s supporters claiming he was also part of some conspiracy?
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #85 on: July 11, 2019, 02:45:17 PM »
Most of the information on the WAP forum at the time came from Luke Mitchell. Information he and his mother had given Sandra Lean in order to help her write the chapter in her book.

Sandra Lean didn’t get sight of the working case files until sometime in 2009/10.

Meaning Sandra Lean had an opportunity to correct misleading information in the public domain as early as 2009/10.

What was happening with the Luke Mitchell case around this time and what was going on with regards WAP and Billy Middleton etc.

Why the need by Sandra Lean to attempt a distraction with this? http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8086.msg383377.html#msg383377

Sandra Lean stated:

”It is with extreme sadness and regret that I am making this post, but the events of this afternoon have left me with no choice. Whether people accept it or not, posts on internet sites have real life consequences.

I can only finish by saying that I am truly heart-broken at how these events have panned out. That your words are being used to paint me as dishonest and unreliable, and that in turn is being used to undermine Luke's case, is probably one of the worst experiences in all of this. I thought you were my friend.”
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 02:55:26 PM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Parky41

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #86 on: July 11, 2019, 05:47:55 PM »
 Quote Sandra Lean http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.4590.html

Quote
Yes, Sandra most certainly is! I do not have an "extremely strong relationship" with Corinne, she is not "my friend,"  or my "best buddy." My reasons for continuing with Luke's case have nothing to do with any relationship I have with Corinne - good or bad.

Understandably-Lawyers don't usually become friends with their clients, would seem feasable that, after Ms Leans stand down from the case following the SCCRC (Or having power removed at that point?) that any relationship may have became strained.

Offline Nicholas

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #87 on: July 11, 2019, 06:09:19 PM »
Quote Sandra Lean http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.4590.html

Understandably-Lawyers don't usually become friends with their clients, would seem feasable that, after Ms Leans stand down from the case following the SCCRC (Or having power removed at that point?) that any relationship may have became strained.

Quite!

8 days before attending the COA, whilst I was in probably one of the most volatile and vulnerable positions I’ve ever experienced in my life, the pair of them chose to do this!?!

In a blatant attempt at damage limitations because THEY had been exposed!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 06:19:58 PM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #88 on: July 11, 2019, 06:53:31 PM »
Quote Sandra Lean http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.4590.html

Understandably-Lawyers don't usually become friends with their clients, would seem feasable that, after Ms Leans stand down from the case following the SCCRC (Or having power removed at that point?) that any relationship may have became strained.

I suspect a conversation has been had amongst them, cards have been put on the table, and Corrine Mitchell has gone for it.
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #89 on: July 11, 2019, 07:10:11 PM »
Nugnug states: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg452502.html#msg452502
thats not a refution its just insult.

seems you cant refute my point.

why would lue delted incriminating texts knowing full well jodis mum would still have them

why would jodis mum not go t the police and say she had them.

come on whats the nser to that


It’s basic logic, if only he and the rest of them understood the people within the case and could see past the BS.

Jodi was a private individual; she deleted her messages to Luke so that her mum wouldn’t see them.

The Joneses and extended family were and are a close knit, loving and private family. If Jodi’s mum did delete her messages it was done to protect her privacy. It’s normal for people to delete messages. The fact she handed her phone to the police shows she had nothing to hide. She would not have known if the police could have retrieved all the data or not.

The other fact of course is none us know what the make and models of the phones were and what there capabilities were at the time nor the capabilities of L&B police and their data retrieval systems at the the time.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 07:12:30 PM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes