The dog preventing a successful massacre for Jeremy :

[adam]

I have never read Jeremy claim he could not commit the massacre due to the barking dog/s. The only time I have read him refer to  the dog was when he told the police to 'get rid of it/put it down' directly after the massacre, as he didn't want it 'messing up his stereo equipment'.

The only other mention of the dog was the police hearing a barking dog when the phone line was disengaged. Crispy was found cowering underneath a bed upon the raid teams entrance.

Would Crispy really prevent Jeremy from attempting and succeeding in carrying out the massacre as people have claimed ?

It was not a guard dog, may not have woken, or if it did wake may have recognised Jeremy and not made much noise.

It may have been put in another room at night time, behind a shut door. Dogs often are to prevent them charging around unattended.  Jeremy letting the dog out after the massacre to make it seem like Neville had not gone to bed.

Or it may have slept with Neville & June, meaning by the time the shooting started it was too late for it to make any warning barks.

An awake Crispy is unlikely to do much once the shooting started. It was a small dog and not a guard dog. It would sense that Jeremy was firing a lethal weapon and it could be next.  So would no doubt run and hide.


33

[guinness]

who has claimed that?

And yes the dog was barking - so what is your point?

[adam]

People have claimed Jeremy could not have been successful in a massacre. Or would not have attempted the massacre because of a small dog inside WHF.

So was asking whether people believe this is correct.

[adam]

There were four risks which in my opinion were worth taking regarding the dog -

It would not wake.

It would wake and not bark.

It would wake and bark. But in the few seconds it took Jeremy to get upstairs, the barking would not have woken anyone.

The dog would not get in Bamber's way when the shooting started.

[APRIL]

People have claimed Jeremy could not have been successful in a massacre. Or would not have attempted the massacre because of a small dog inside WHF.

So was asking whether people believe this is correct.

I have never heard this claimed, Adam. The insinuation that someone might be put off their stride by one small dog is, IMO, simply ludicrous.

[adam]

I have never heard this claimed, Adam. The insinuation that someone might be put off their stride by one small dog is, IMO, simply ludicrous.

It has often been claimed on the Blue forum. The most recent claim made me create the thread on the Blue forum.

[APRIL]

It has often been claimed on the Blue forum. The most recent claim made me create the thread on the Blue forum.

MADE you, Adam? Was the choice not your own?

[adam]

Yes it was my choice to create a thread on the barking dog. Well done.

[John]

The way I understand it was that Crispy normally slept in the master bedroom with June and Nevill as they were ordinarily resident in the farmhouse.  The bedroom door was closed, possibly locked. Crispy might very well have detected an intruder and alerted June and Nevill to an intruder by barking, only the killer can answer this question.

When the door was opened and the shooting of Nevill and June started Crispy would have been terrified and hid in the only place available to her, namely, under the bed where she was later found cowering by the first police officers to enter the bedroom.

What we can say with confidence is that the dog which stayed outside would have barked and alerted to a stranger but not to Jeremy.

[adam]

The way I understand it was that Crispy normally slept in the master bedroom with June and Nevill as they were ordinarily resident in the farmhouse.  The bedroom door was closed, possibly locked. Crispy might very well have detected an intruder and alerted June and Nevill to an intruder by barking, only the killer can answer this question.

When the door was opened and the shooting of Nevill and June started Crispy would have been terrified and hid in the only place available to her, namely, under the bed where she was later found cowering by the first police officers to enter the bedroom.

What we can say with confidence is that the dog which stayed outside would have barked and alerted to a stranger but not to Jeremy.

Thanks.

That sounds believable. Apart from the bedroom door being locked. They may shut it, but why would they lock their bedroom door ? That would make it hard for Bamber to commit the massacre. Having to smash the door in. There were no reports of bedroom door damage.

[Holly Goodhead]

People have claimed Jeremy could not have been successful in a massacre. Or would not have attempted the massacre because of a small dog inside WHF.

So was asking whether people believe this is correct.

It could be argued that Crispy (shitazu ?) may have acted as a deterrent in terms of alerting the victims to JB breaking in and moving about covertly.  Of course if you buy Caroline's theory that JB never actually left WHF then this is unlikely to be an issue.

I thought I saw a dog basket near the aga in a soc photo?  I think I may also have read that it slept near June?  If it slept in the kitchen, near the aga, then I guess seeing a wetsuit clad JB might have caused a bit of a woof?

Obviously the dog was not considered dangerous in terms of NB or June giving it the command to attack so it would not have acted as a deterrent in that regard.

[Holly Goodhead]

The way I understand it was that Crispy normally slept in the master bedroom with June and Nevill as they were ordinarily resident in the farmhouse.  The bedroom door was closed, possibly locked. Crispy might very well have detected an intruder and alerted June and Nevill to an intruder by barking, only the killer can answer this question.

When the door was opened and the shooting of Nevill and June started Crispy would have been terrified and hid in the only place available to her, namely, under the bed where she was later found cowering by the first police officers to enter the bedroom.

What we can say with confidence is that the dog which stayed outside would have barked and alerted to a stranger but not to Jeremy.

How do we know the bedroom door was closed, possibly locked?

I have a friend who lives in a secluded cottage.  When she receives visitors, including myself, the dog (Labrador) goes berserk barking as soon as we pull up in the car.  When her sons visit the dog doesn't bark.  I have asked her whether this is due to scent, sound or something else and she seems to think the dog is familiar/unfamiliar with the sound of car engines.  Would the outside dog at WHF, Bruce the Labrador, bark if JB approached WHF on June's bike either riding or pushing it as this would be an unfamiliar sound?

[Myster]

We don't know whether it was locked, but I doubt it.  As Adam said, it would have impeded JB's plan.  Perhaps it's unusual to secure a bedroom door unless say, a burglar had broken into your property once before while you were asleep, so you became nervous of a repeat performance. I never lock my bedroom door, although that's just in case a succubus should pay a visit during the night. : - )

I've pointed out before that the labrador was many, many yards away on the opposite side of WHF to the entrance gate and window he entered... and no, I don't know the exact distance to the nearest millimetre. There was nothing to stop him getting off the bike at the gate and wheeling it up to the window, across grass if necessary.
Crispy would easily sniff out JB and keel over comatose... after all, he did call himself "Stinker"! 

[Holly Goodhead]

We don't know whether it was locked, but I doubt it.  As Adam said, it would have impeded JB's plan.  Perhaps it's unusual to secure a bedroom door unless say, a burglar had broken into your property once before while you were asleep, so you became nervous of a repeat performance. I never lock my bedroom door, although that's just in case a succubus should pay a visit during the night. : - )

I've pointed out before that the labrador was many, many yards away on the opposite side of WHF to the entrance gate and window he entered... and no, I don't know the exact distance to the nearest millimetre. There was nothing to stop him getting off the bike at the gate and wheeling it up to the window, across grass if necessary.
Crispy would easily sniff out JB and keel over comatose... after all, he did call himself "Stinker"! 

Often when grandchildren stay over the grandparents will offer to listen out for them should they wake to save the parents being on alert.  Although I accept Daniel and Nicholas were 6 yoa and should have been sleeping through the night.  I don't think most people lock their bedroom door or even have locks on the doors?

I've never owned a dog so know little about them but from general knowledge I thought they had amazing auditory and scent abilities so much so that wherever Bruce the Labrador  was situated around WHF he would hear a bike/visitor long before he/she arrived?

There's a "stinker" and there's a "stinker".  I imagine JB bathing in the 80's aftershaves eg Kouras by YSL.  Or perhaps Aramis that was another fave in the 80's.

[adam]

We don't know whether it was locked, but I doubt it.  As Adam said, it would have impeded JB's plan.  Perhaps it's unusual to secure a bedroom door unless say, a burglar had broken into your property once before while you were asleep, so you became nervous of a repeat performance. I never lock my bedroom door, although that's just in case a succubus should pay a visit during the night. : - )

I've pointed out before that the labrador was many, many yards away on the opposite side of WHF to the entrance gate and window he entered... and no, I don't know the exact distance to the nearest millimetre. There was nothing to stop him getting off the bike at the gate and wheeling it up to the window, across grass if necessary.
Crispy would easily sniff out JB and keel over comatose... after all, he did call himself "Stinker"! 

Have you got a source about the labrador was a long way away.