Only in America Blog: Madeleine McCann Was Not Abducted

[Alfred R Jones]

So,  according to you they panicked and said the shutters were jemmied Stephen?

When did this panicking occur?     When Kate found Madeleine gone?   In which case according to you,  you believe Amaral's theory of Madeleine having an accident,   so,  Kate having found Madeleine,  hid her body sorted out the apartment,   then opened the shutters.    All the friends came back to 5a saw the shutters open and Gerry testing them from outside finding that they COULD be opened from the outside.

Then Gerry closed them in a panic before the police arrived, then phoned all his relatives in a panic and told them the shutters had been jemmied.  It all makes perfect sense now!

[sadie]

Why dont you guys back off instead of making even more fools of yourselves?

-  It has been shown that Kate spoke to her relatives and she didn't check the shutters.  She was in such a state that even if Gerry told her, she quite probably would not have absorbed the info ... so may wewll have thought that the shutters had been forced open.

-  Alternatively as Carana says the fact that the shutters opened from the outside so easily may have convinced Gerry to think they had been forced in some way.  Most Brits would not expect roller shutters to open like that from outside ... and his mind was expecting that, from what he had seen inside

-  The phone messages in such a situation would be garbled.  They would be passed from family member to family member in the UK ad nausium and inevitably become changed by chinese whispers.

As has been pointed out earlier, in any case it appears that the word "jemmied" covers a wide spectrum of meanings.

-  Remember, the family in the UK would also be in panic mode as soon as they heard the news, their minds would be doing cartwheels.    Hardly the best situation for rational conversations, try as they might.  A perfect chinese whisper mistakes situation.

-  Even in the unlikely situation that Gerry or Kate had managed to speak in a normal unpanicked manner, it is doubtful they would include every tiny detail ... some would get missed.  Even with a full and perfect description it is difficult to understand and visualise from afar what someone is describing.




I cannot think why you guys are so determined to make such a huge thing out of NOTHING!You guys really are desperate to drop The Mccanns in the dodo. 


And, I will say it again:
There has to be a reason for all this determination to paint The Mccanns as the perps.  Is there an agenda somewhere?

[faithlilly]

Why dont you guys back off instead of making even more fools of yourselves?

-  It has been shown that Kate spoke to her relatives and she didn't check the shutters.  She was in such a state that even if Gerry told her, she quite probably would not have absorbed the info ... so may wewll have thought that the shutters had been forced open.

-  Alternatively as Carana says the fact that the shutters opened from the outside so easily may have convinced Gerry to think they had been forced in some way.  Most Brits would not expect roller shutters to open like that from outside ... and his mind was expecting that, from what he had seen inside

-  The phone messages in such a situation would be garbled.  They would be passed from family member to family member in the UK ad nausium and inevitably become changed by chinese whispers.

As has been pointed out earlier, in any case it appears that the word "jemmied" covers a wide spectrum of meanings.

-  Remember, the family in the UK would also be in panic mode as soon as they heard the news, their minds would be doing cartwheels.    Hardly the best situation for rational conversations, try as they might.  A perfect chinese whisper mistakes situation.

-  Even in the unlikely situation that Gerry or Kate had managed to speak in a normal unpanicked manner, it is doubtful they would include every tiny detail ... some would get missed.  Even with a full and perfect description it is difficult to understand and visualise from afar what someone is describing.




I cannot think why you guys are so determined to make such a huge thing out of NOTHING!
You guys really are desperate to drop The Mccanns in the dodo. 


And, I will say it again:
There has to be a reason for all this determination to paint The Mccanns as the perps.  Is there an agenda somewhere?

So many words when what it boils down to is this. At least four friends/family state that either Kate or Gerry told them directly that the shutters had been broken/jemmied/forced. This was not hearsay. This was not secondhand information.
So either the friends/family were lying or the couple were. It really is as simple as that.

[Mr Gray]

So many words when what it boils down to is this. At least four friends/family state that either Kate or Gerry told them directly that the shutters had been broken/jemmied/forced. This was not hearsay. This was not secondhand information.
So either the friends/family were lying or the couple were. It really is as simple as that.

no one is lying..Gerry said the shutters had been forced..it is as simple as that

[Anna]

In the beginning, I had assumed that "jemmied" implied the use of a crowbar or a similar implement. However, various people explained to me that it can be used to simply mean "forced open".

Then there is the semantic argument about what "forced open" may mean.

I had associated it with a connotation of evidence of damage due to brute force. Gerry had said that he hadn't realised that it could be lifted quite easily, which does appear to be true, kindly demonstrated by someone in a YouTube video clip.

Alternatively, it could simply mean opened / lifted in a manner for which it was not designed: the strap is on the inside - there isn't a design mechanism for lifting it from the outside. 

Gerry may well have used the term "jemmied", or it could be that that was how whatever he did say was interpreted.

Personally, I find it important to bear in mind the context of a panicked - possibly barely coherent - phone call, with equally panicked family members forming varying mental impressions of a break-in together with the urgency of getting help from the media to help find her as quickly as possible.

IIRC. It was a word used, in Scotland, when something was forced open, however, I do not know if it is still used as such.

[faithlilly]

no one is lying..Gerry said the shutters had been forced..it is as simple as that

If only davel, if only.

[sadie]

I have absolutely proved it by stint of family/friends direct statements.

It is interesting that you deny any wrongdoing by the McCanns even in the face of overwhelming evidence yet believe I am a certain individual by stint of the most tenuous hearsay. How exactly does that work then davel ?

Faith, you have PROVED nothing.


Seems that you, like a few others on here believe the Quentin crisp rubbish that you actually have the affrontery to use as your signature:

“Charisma is the ability to influence without logic.”

Quentin Crisp

If you think that is good enough: If you are unable to follow logic; if you are unable to stop blaming The Mccanns with NO evidence, then I respectfully suggest that you dont say anything.
Rather than perpetuate a myth and Injustice against a couple who are legally unable to answer back.. 


Charisma doesn't count.  Smooth talkers are slimey characters and the bane of this forum.  Let's have FACTS and LOGIC

[sadie]

So many words when what it boils down to is this. At least four friends/family state that either Kate or Gerry told them directly that the shutters had been broken/jemmied/forced. This was not hearsay. This was not secondhand information.
So either the friends/family were lying or the couple were. It really is as simple as that.

-  Are you sure that the word directly was used? 
-  Are you sure that Gerry did not think the shutters  had been forced cos in his  mind, per British shutters,  they would NOT open from outside unless broken in some way
- Are you sure that it was Gerry that supposedly said these words? .... or could it have been Kate who had not checked the shutters to see if they were broken?
-  Are you SURE that it wasn't Chinese Whispers?

etc. etc.

So many alternatives to what you are asserting.


If you are NOT SURE of these things then you should stop making these assertions.  Effectively, IMO, they are libellouis.

[Alfred R Jones]

Perhaps a "sceptic" could explain what is unreasonable about Gerry assuming that the shutters had been forced open, on discovering his daughter missing and saying so to his relatives?  Anybody?

[Alfred R Jones]

Well...? &%+((£

[slartibartfast]

Perhaps a "sceptic" could explain what is unreasonable about Gerry assuming that the shutters had been forced open, on discovering his daughter missing and saying so to his relatives?  Anybody?

Why would they be forced when they left the patio doors unlocked?

[Alfred R Jones]

Why would they be forced when they left the patio doors unlocked?

Can you please answer my question, rather than ask another question first, could you do that for me, pretty please...?

[Alfred R Jones]

Eg: "it is unreasonable for Gerry to assume that on seeing the bedroom shutters open and his daughter missing that they were forced opened because he should have reasoned that the abductor came in through the patio doors and opened the shutters from inside" - is that your reasoning Slarti?

[slartibartfast]

Can you please answer my question, rather than ask another question first, could you do that for me, pretty please...?

No. It is part and parcel of the same question.

[Alfred R Jones]

No. It is part and parcel of the same question.

Please see my post above.