Author Topic: Sheila re loading. Twice.  (Read 56717 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #90 on: January 29, 2015, 03:42:29 PM »
What skill is required to load bullets into a mag, slot the mag in, chamber a round and pull the trigger?  The mechanical process is no more difficult than it is with a host of everyday equipment eg changing a battery in a household appliance, food mixer, erecting and collapsing a baby buggy.

The skill of knowing how to release the magazine, knowing that the bullets need ot be loaded into the magazine, knowing that you need to manually feed the first round into the chamber and knowing hwo to chamber a round for starters.  These are all things that do not need to be done with the shotguns they owned.  The shotguns they woned either took one or 2 shells at a time loaded into the breech of the gun and needed no manual feeding of a round into the chamber it was already in the breech when loaded. 

All guns are different and knowing how to use one does not instantly mean you can use another.  Even handguns are different some are double action others single action. The difference is that the hammer has to be cocked to fire for single action but wiht double action the trigger operated the hammer always even if not cocked. That alone can make the difference between a gun firing or not.  I watched with great amusement as someone who never used a revolver before (his only experience with revolvers was toy cap guns) took more than 20 minutes to figure out how to get the cylinder to swing out.  He though it would open like a cap gun so tried pulling on the rod that is used to eject the shells. He had no idea there was a thumb lever that makes it open. Someone took pity on him and told him there is a thumb switch and he then figured out how to work it finally.     


I cannot recall what type of car I had my formal driving lessons in but my first personally owned car was a mini 1275GT (same car as Marc Bolan died in).  Since then I have owned and had access to a wide range of motor vehicles.  The controls and transmission are all different.  I don't have to think about it I get in and go because I know how to drive a car ie the basic skills are transferable in the same way that they are with all equipment. including firearms.

How do you know the first semi auto NB owned was the one purchased in Nov '84?  Prove it?  How do you know JB initiated the purchase and not NB?  If the relationship was strained why did the pair make the purchase together?  SC didn't need to be interested in guns to pick it up and fire it.  I am not particularly interested in my car but it doesn't stop me getting in it and driving it.  I am not particularly interested in my vacuum cleaner but it doesn't stop me turning it on to vacuum.  I am not particularly interested in my mobile phone but it doesn't stop me manipulating it via the screen to perform various functions.  How interested does someone have to be in something to perform a function/pick up a semi-auto rifle, prepare it for fire and pull the trigger? 

I wish I was clever enough to come up with the adoption, attachment and neuroscientific theories, research and studies relevant to the WHF tragedy but I have to hand the credit for that to all the various professors and doctors at the Ivy League unis in US. 

Whoa you're resulting to emotional blackmail now are you?  Bit big girls blousy.  I am shameless in my smearing of SC?  I haven't seen you come to her defence when posters refer to her as "promiscuous" and worse.


What evidence do you have that NB, JB, her farm hand boyfriend and or a.n others didn't provide same basic instruction?  It should be fairly obvious that if a female grows up on a farm with a brother as an only sibling she will have sufficient exposure/experience to guns to pick one up, perform the most basic functions and fire it.  I have already stated that complete novices should have been placed in a room where they witnessed a proficient operator/handler load and fire the weapon in question half a dozen times and then see how many of the novices were capable of duplicating the action.   


She didn't need to learn to drive as she lived in London.  A car is a pain in London with parking and traffic.  CC was some years older than SC and he didn't learn to drive until June funded his lessons.  Please provide my post where I stated that Justice Drake's summation was in anyway a factor in the MoJ of the Bridgewater 4? I simply pointed out that JB and the Bridgwater 4 shared the same trial judge. Crucial difference between Lynette Frome and Sheila Caffell is that Lynette Frome did not grow up on a farm where a wide range of firearms were kept and used. Lynette Frome's father was an aeronautical engineer and her mother a homemaker.  SC's father was a former RAF pilot and farmer and her mother a farmer too.  But hey that's Skip's peverse logic.

The proof are the accounts of the witnesses that it was the first semi-auto.  You bear the burden of proving otehrwise but can't.

You also bear the burden of establishing she was trianed to use weapons, particuarly semi-autos.  Jeremy iniially claimed he taught her how to fire the murde rwepaon but when giving his statements and uring his interrogation he stated the opposite and denied telling police he taught her how to use the murder wepaon.

Witnesses said she had no interest in guns and worse said that June told them that Jeremy wanted to teach her how to load the magazine but she wasn't intereste din learning.  SInce she wasn't interested in learning that refutes your suggesiton she was interested in learning how to use it.

You intentionally ignroe the evidence because it is inconvenient to your agenda.  You ignore everything inconvenient to your agenda from ignoring the medical testimony that her fatal wound would result in drawback to the evidence Neville struggled with his killer.  You just dismiss and ignore eveyrthing that proves Jeremy did it so you can move forward with your nonsense claims that Sheila did it because she was adopted. 

“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #91 on: January 30, 2015, 04:17:25 PM »
I was just reading up on Kirsten Weiss a professional performance shooter and adventurer.

In her bio it states:

Though by no means a requirement to love shooting, Kirsten’s grown up in a family who appreciates guns. Her parents taught her, practically before she could speak, to “treat every gun as if it were loaded”. With safety taught and in mind, guns represent fun, recreation, challenge, and camaraderie. Because of this she has a very comfortable, yet respectful, relationship with guns.

http://kirstenjoyweiss.com/bio/

I guess NB would have done similar to the above with SC and JB especially after NB's shooting accident with Leslie Speakman  &%+((£

Cool vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmqly9v8pk8

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #92 on: January 30, 2015, 05:00:13 PM »
Not necessarily.   &%&£(+   I live opposite a farm. The farmer who I know well has two daughters, both now adult and married, neither of whom showed the least bit of interest in using his rifles even though one was tomboyish before she eventually grew out of it.  You can't apply one guess to cover all!
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #93 on: January 30, 2015, 05:10:23 PM »
I was just reading up on Kirsten Weiss a professional performance shooter and adventurer.

In her bio it states:

Though by no means a requirement to love shooting, Kirsten’s grown up in a family who appreciates guns. Her parents taught her, practically before she could speak, to “treat every gun as if it were loaded”. With safety taught and in mind, guns represent fun, recreation, challenge, and camaraderie. Because of this she has a very comfortable, yet respectful, relationship with guns.

http://kirstenjoyweiss.com/bio/

I guess NB would have done similar to the above with SC and JB especially after NB's shooting accident with Leslie Speakman  &%+((£

Cool vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmqly9v8pk8

Teaching someone to treat a gun as if loaded no matter what doesn't mean they taught her how to operate it.  I told my nieces to always treat my guns like loaded and to never aim that at anyone even though I let them touch them while they were unloaded and have NEVER let them touche them when loaded and thus never taught them how to operate any of them. 

You are tkaing someone who has an interest in guns and thus was taught how to operate guns, and comparing it to someone who had no interest and didn't operate them. She didn't even want to learn how to load the magazine to Jeremy's rifle let alone to see how it is inserted into the weapon.  They didn't even have any semi-autos until Jeremy insisted on them buying one so had not to teach her how to use anyway when she was young.

[ moderated ]
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 12:15:12 PM by John »
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #94 on: January 30, 2015, 05:33:01 PM »
Not necessarily.   &%&£(+   I live opposite a farm. The farmer who I know well has two daughters, both now adult and married, neither of whom showed the least bit of interest in using his rifles even though one was tomboyish before she eventually grew out of it.  You can't apply one guess to cover all!

Absolutely I agree, but if you are exposed to a certain action/behaviour, even if not consciously aware and have no interest in re-enacting the action/behaviour, it stands to reason that one would be able to draw on that action/behaviour as and when?  Also I don't think it is necessary for a girl/woman who shows an interest in traditional male activities to be a "tom-boy"?  In the WHF case SC was unlikely to ever be a markswoman but was she capable of picking up a rifle performing the most basic functions and managing successful aims at close range? 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #95 on: January 30, 2015, 05:49:08 PM »
Teaching someone to treat a gun as if loaded no matter what doesn't mean they taught her how to operate it.  I told my nieces to always treat my guns like loaded and to never aim that at anyone even though I let them touch them while they were unloaded and have NEVER let them touche them when loaded and thus never taught them how to operate any of them. 

You are tkaing someone who has an interest in guns and thus was taught how to operate guns, and comparing it to someone who had no interest and didn't operate them. She didn't even want to learn how to load the magazine to Jeremy's rifle let alone to see how it is inserted into the weapon.  They didn't even have any semi-autos until Jeremy insisted on them buying one so had not to teach her how to use anyway when she was young.


@ 6.30 mins in DB tells us that SC had a little experience with guns.  How much is "a little"?  SC went out beating as I have done on occasions.  I find it inconceivable against this backdrop coupled with the fact she grew up on a working farm that she was not capable of picking up the rifle, performing the most basic functions and firing successful shots at close range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 12:15:33 PM by John »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #96 on: January 30, 2015, 10:09:42 PM »
@ 6.30 mins in DB tells us that SC had a little experience with guns.  How much is "a little"?  SC went out beating as I have done on occasions.  I find it inconceivable against this backdrop coupled with the fact she grew up on a working farm that she was not capable of picking up the rifle, performing the most basic functions and firing successful shots at close range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo

You are wasting your time spinning.  You can say the same crap over and over but it will not chancge that there were not semi-autos until Jeremy INSISTED his father buy him one (to use to kill them with that is why he wanted a semi-auto) and even if Sheila had been taught how to use shotguns when she wa slittle that will not permit her to know how to load and operate a semi-auto becaus eit functions different.  You can claim the skills are the same from one weapon to another but just because you insist such doens't make it true.  I have provided examples where it didn't hold tue.

When all the evidence is added together it is clear Jeremy killed everyone, that SHeila didn't do a thing and that your claims to the contrary are unsupported by anything.

The evidence that Jeremy wanted to kil lhis family and then followed through and did so is overwhelming which is why you spend your life with tons of ridiculous what ifs instead of any evidence to the contary.
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

david1819

  • Guest
Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #97 on: January 30, 2015, 10:12:56 PM »
I think it is a rather pointless argument to try and establish that Shelia could not have used a .22 calibre semi automatic

They have .22 manual rifles designed for kids! let alone semi-automatic


http://www.crickett.com/crickett_22_LR.php

Then you have female child soldiers in the 3rd world using far more powerful weapons



At the end of the day automatic guns are very easily to use. In my experience iv only handled manual rifles they are more difficult but still a fairly simple tool to use.


Offline Myster

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #98 on: January 30, 2015, 10:32:49 PM »
I think I'd rather believe Colin Caffell as to whether Sheila was familar with the use of guns or not...

http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/1986/10/28/AS281086004/?s=jeremy+bamber&st=0&pn=1
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #99 on: January 30, 2015, 10:45:05 PM »
I think it is a rather pointless argument to try and establish that Shelia could not have used a .22 calibre semi automatic

They have .22 manual rifles designed for kids! let alone semi-automatic


http://www.crickett.com/crickett_22_LR.php

Then you have female child soldiers in the 3rd world using far more powerful weapons



At the end of the day automatic guns are very easily to use. In my experience iv only handled manual rifles they are more difficult but still a fairly simple tool to use.

Your desperation is showing and your arguments do not repsond to the arguments made.

Argument:  Witnesses testified Sheila had no interest in firearms, didn't want to learn how to load bullets into the magazine of the murder weapon, no one saw her ever fire a weapon including her brother and they didn't own any semi-autos until Jeremy had his father buy the murder wepaon.  She thus had no way to know how to load the murder weapon.

Your response:  they have manuals available online that she could have obtianed from somewhere to learn.

Rebuttal: If she wanted to learn she woudl have let her brother teach her she would not have needed to go look for  a manual somehwere.  But she didn't want to learn.

Argument: Sheila lacked the hand eye coordination to accurately shoot and had dexterity problems because of her medication including involuntary movements and never used the murder weapon before let alone was proficient with it thus the notion she would be able to fire 25 shots without misisng is not very credible.

Your response:  Women have been trained how to effectively use military weapons so she could have handled the recoil of a gun like a 22.

Rebuttal: your argument doesn't speak to any of the issues that were raised it is nonresponsive.  You took the strawman argument that people said she was too weak to fire the gun instead of addressing the real argument which spoke to her not being able to accurately fire it. Saying women trained to accurately operate wepaons can do so doesn't speak to the fact she wasn't trained and thus would not be able to plus she had physical problems from her illenss and side effects from her medication which interfered.

[ moderated ]

« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 12:19:52 PM by John »
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline puglove

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #100 on: January 30, 2015, 11:17:24 PM »
I think I'd rather believe Colin Caffell as to whether Sheila was familar with the use of guns or not...

http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/1986/10/28/AS281086004/?s=jeremy+bamber&st=0&pn=1

Exactly. The Anschutz was a new gun, and although Bamber tried to show Sheila how to load it, she had no interest and wandered away.

Because my husband shoots, I know how to use an under and over shotgun, and an air rifle to keep magpies away from the swallow nests in the stables. But I wouldn't have a clue about Anschutz magazines, or the fact that you have to chamber a round. I wouldn't know where to start. How would Sheila know? By osmosis?
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

david1819

  • Guest
Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #101 on: January 30, 2015, 11:40:48 PM »
Shelia didn't like guns therefore could not use one is a poor argument.

I don't like cars but I have a full license. My Grandfather does not like computers but still manages to e-mail me. So are you saying that it was not me that passed my driving test, That someone else such as a cloned imposter took my driving test because I don't like cars? That someone else must be behind all my Grandfathers online correspondence because he does not like computers?

Oh as I goes and my Dad can testify I have watched a few episodes of Laurel and Hardy with him!
But I have no interest in Laurel and Hardy! Cant have happened then! a Myth! Never watched it, It was a clone of me that was present with my father!
 

 

« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 12:20:20 PM by John »

Offline puglove

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #102 on: January 30, 2015, 11:55:08 PM »
Shelia didn't like guns therefore could not use one is a poor argument.

I don't like cars but I have a full license. My Grandfather does not like computers but still manages to e-mail me. So are saying that it was not me that passed my driving test, That someone else such as a cloned imposter took my driving test because I don't like cars? That someone else must be behind all my Grandfathers online correspondence because he does not like computers?

Oh as I goes and my Dad can testify I have watched a few episodes of Laurel and Hardy with him!
But I have no interest in Laurel and Hardy! Cant have happened then! a Myth! Never watched it, It was a clone of me that was present with my father!

You have to take scipio as you find him. I think he's brilliant.

Anyhoo. The general consensus seems to be that, because Sheila grew up on a farm, she could automatically.....

drive a tractor

hitch up a trailer

shoot game and vermin

cook scones for the W.I.

stack bales

keep chickens

make a stirrup cup

arrange flowers for the local church



But she couldn't even drive a car. She had no interest in farming or farming life.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 12:20:48 PM by John »
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline puglove

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #103 on: January 31, 2015, 12:13:56 AM »
I'm on a warning, apparently, so I can't be too contentious, but....please explain to me how the gun was free of Sheila's prints. She shot her family, she used the gun as a club when she battered Ralph, then she shot herself. Twice. So....why isn't the gun covered in her prints? How did she wipe them off?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 12:32:13 PM by John »
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline puglove

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #104 on: January 31, 2015, 12:34:21 AM »
I'm on a warning, apparently, so I can't be too contentious, but....please explain to me how the gun was free of Sheila's prints. She shot her family, she used the gun as a club when she battered Ralph, then she shot herself. Twice. So....why isn't the gun covered in her prints? How did she wipe them off?

And...I know we've all been here before, but Sheila never moved after the first shot. No blood in her lungs or stomach. Even though the first shot tore into the soft tissue.

If Sheila was conscious after the first shot, she would have drowned in her own blood.
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.