Poll

Do you think the judge will...

Rule case dismissed.
17 (42.5%)
Allow the claim and award substantial damages.
5 (12.5%)
Allow the claim and award token damages.
18 (45%)

Total Members Voted: 33

Voting closed: February 27, 2015, 02:50:24 PM

Author Topic: Libel trial day 14 - Statement of facts proved/not proved issued to lawyers.  (Read 147326 times)

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Offline DCI

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  • Why are some folks so sick in the head!!!
Why should it be illegal - did the lawyers take a vow of silence?

Where did I say lawyers?. Anne Guedes should not have had those reports, she's not a lawyer. She tried to get them from a court clerk and was refused.
Kate's 500 Mile Cycle Challenge

https://www.justgiving.com/KateMcCann/

Offline Mr Gray

Why should it be illegal - did the lawyers take a vow of silence?

none of the lawyers have spoken so probably yes

Offline jassi

Where did I say lawyers?. Anne Guedes should not have had those reports, she's not a lawyer. She tried to get them from a court clerk and was refused.

My mistake. However the findings were read out in an open court so they obviously weren't considered secret.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

stephen25000

  • Guest
interesting point....I'm sure the judge will be most impressed with amaral pre empting her decision...whilst the McCanns maintain a dignified silence

Dignified silence or mere cowardice.

They speak through their 'sources'.

Offline misty

I believe that all the lawyers were given the written copies of the judge's decisions regarding the proven facts and each lawyer is free to contest any point of law arising from the same.
 Presumably, anyone attending in court was free to report what the judge said, just not verbatim.
 I also presume that it would not be in the interest of any of the lawyers to leak the exact wording on the documents pending any legal challenges from one or more of the parties prior to the final ruling.

Offline DCI

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2585
  • Total likes: 6
  • Why are some folks so sick in the head!!!
I believe that all the lawyers were given the written copies of the judge's decisions regarding the proven facts and each lawyer is free to contest any point of law arising from the same.
 Presumably, anyone attending in court was free to report what the judge said, just not verbatim.
 I also presume that it would not be in the interest of any of the lawyers to leak the exact wording on the documents pending any legal challenges from one or more of the parties prior to the final ruling.

Somebody leaked them Misty, Anne Guedes asked for them and was refused. Seems hardly any discussion actually held.

In a civil court, the facts that were gathered and considered as evidence by the judge, within the limits fixed for a trial, are normally not publicised, whereas in a penal court they have to be stated publicly.

This morning's session, which was no hearing, happened to be open to the public (reduced to 3 persons, me included, no journalist) just because, due the restructure of the juridical system that occurred end of August, the judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro has been nominated to another section and doesn't belong to this civil court anymore, having therefore no office in the Tribunal Civil de Lisboa. So she needed a court room to release to the lawyers the document she elaborated.

Only four lawyers were present :

For the claimants, Dr Ricardo Afonso  (representing Dra Isabel Duarte)

For the defence,  Dr Miguel Cruz Rodrigues, Dra Fatima de Oliveira Esteves, Dr Henrique Costa Pinto. Dr Miguel Coroadinha (TVI) was absent.

The Judge asked the lawyers to read the document in case they needed clarification on some points or had any objection, suggesting it wasn't definitive. In fact it is on this document that the lawyers who solicited it at the last hearing (all of them) will build their "allegations of law", i.e indicate how they would interpret the law on these topics. The judge left the court room, leaving the lawyers at their reading.

And so it happened. 

A quarter of an hour later, the judge entered the room (through the witnesses', clerk's and lawyers' entrance and not through the judge's special entrance) and asked for observations.

The only lawyer who intervened was Dr Henrique Costa Pinto (Valentim de Carvalho Multimedia).
 
He found some contradiction concerning the green light given for the DVD’s production. He underlined that he was mentioning this issue informally. The judge explained that she took various sources into account and that commercializing is one thing and selling another. Therefore she thought it wasn't contradictory, but admitted that without the context it might let one think it was.
 
The other issue was related to the WOC issue. From this day on, the claimants have 30 days to hand over the London Court's authorization to have Madeleine McCann represented by her parents in this trial. Meanwhile the trial is suspended. After the 30 days delay, which of course can happen to be shorter, the lawyers will have ten days to hand in their "allegations of law".

When the judge left the room after distributing the document to the lawyers, as if the benches for the public were empty, looking literally through the three members of the public, I entered the “sacred” area and asked the clerk if I could read the document. The clerk looked embarrassed, hesitated but then said “no”, adding, as a justification, that it was “informal”.

As there was no journalist neither in the court room nor outside (only photographers expecting the McCanns like Vladimir and Estragon wait for Godot), as none of the defense lawyers would have misled the Press Agency Lusa to their disadvantage, the reader will need no hypothetico-deductive method to find out who grossly disinformed an institution that still plays a decisive part in the international circulation of the news.
 



Kate's 500 Mile Cycle Challenge

https://www.justgiving.com/KateMcCann/

Offline jassi

So what is the problem?  Would you prefer the information not to be available at all?
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 06:43:44 PM by jassi »
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Mr Gray

Dignified silence or mere cowardice.

They speak through their 'sources'.
amarals lawyers haven't spoken either

Offline Mr Gray

My mistake. However the findings were read out in an open court so they obviously weren't considered secret.

were the findings read out in open court...it looks as they were not

Offline jassi

I assumed so, otherwise how would Anne have got hold of the information?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Mr Gray

I assumed so, otherwise how would Anne have got hold of the information?
Anne does not appear to have got hold of any information

Offline jassi

OK, whoever posted up online then
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Montclair

amarals lawyers haven't spoken either

Amaral's lawyer did speak.

Offline Mr Gray

OK, whoever posted up online then

oh dear ..you've got your facts wrong

Offline Mr Gray

Amaral's lawyer did speak.

then you will have the quote