Author Topic: Were there too many leaks in the Madeleine McCann case?  (Read 17033 times)

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Offline Carana

Re: Were there too many leaks in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #60 on: January 31, 2015, 09:35:52 AM »
You know where some of the many inaccuracies in articles came from. Not from Portuguese police. They took rumours and gossip and online speculation and a bit of imagination and made them up. When there was such a demand for 'news' it was easy work.

That's true in some instances. However, many of the most enduring myths had an origin in PJ leaks, however distorted they became in the news. "A 100% DNA match", "bodily fluids" and "clumps of hair" in the boot, for example.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Were there too many leaks in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #61 on: January 31, 2015, 09:45:33 AM »
Transcripts of police statements. Now are you going to explain why you think it unlikely the leaks originated from the PJ or are you going to keep side-stepping the question?

Because the PJ categorically denied it.

Strange that in the article above Baggott's declaration of no wrong-doing is automatically accepted by the faithful yet when the PJ claim the same thing the are seem as being less than honest.

Can you see the bias in your and your friends position ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Were there too many leaks in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #62 on: January 31, 2015, 12:15:55 PM »
Because the PJ categorically denied it.

Strange that in the article above Baggott's declaration of no wrong-doing is automatically accepted by the faithful yet when the PJ claim the same thing the are seem as being less than honest.

Can you see the bias in your and your friends position ?
LLOL - happy to take the PJ's denial at face value but A...  ......... is clearly lying to the great British public.  Can you see the bias in you and your friends' position?

The PJ swiftly denied they had leaked - but had they conducted a thorough investigation by that point?  Their response seems pretty knee-jerk to me.  The PJ had form when it came to leaking in this case but if you think it is far more likely that the McCanns and their friends had transcripts of their own police statements and gave these to Clarence to leak to Spanish media then that indicates to me a certain lack of clear-thinking on your part.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 04:46:06 PM by John »

Offline faithlilly

Re: Were there too many leaks in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #63 on: January 31, 2015, 12:26:12 PM »
LLOL - happy to take the PJ's denial at face value but A... ....... is clearly lying to the great British public.  Can you see the bias in you and your friends' position?

The PJ swiftly denied they had leaked - but had they conducted a thorough investigation by that point?  Their response seems pretty knee-jerk to me.  The PJ had form when it came to leaking in this case but if you think it is far more likely that the McCanns and their friends had transcripts of their own police statements and gave these to Clarence to leak to Spanish media then that indicates to me a certain lack of clear-thinking on your part.

And the PJ would leak to the Spanish media because....... ?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 04:46:22 PM by John »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: Were there too many leaks in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #64 on: January 31, 2015, 12:56:08 PM »
That's true in some instances. However, many of the most enduring myths had an origin in PJ leaks, however distorted they became in the news. "A 100% DNA match", "bodily fluids" and "clumps of hair" in the boot, for example.

That was because, or partly because, TV joined in with the papers (briefly). Brunt's broadcasts being the most obvious examples.

And TV joined in because the McCanns themselves leaked on arguido day, with McGuiness and Philomena telling anyone who would listen about the 'hire car theory' and that Kate was about to be charged.

So in fact everyone was leaking.

Up until that moment the TV channels refrained from reporting anything that hadn't been confirmed.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Were there too many leaks in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #65 on: January 31, 2015, 01:03:59 PM »
How does a TV station get access to statements given to the police as part of their investigation, pray tell?

We don't know for sure that they did.
The article posted from the Independent seems mostly to be what the prospective member for Brighton Pavilion said or thought.
Being a cautious kid I trust neither side farther than I can kick a lamp post.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Were there too many leaks in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #66 on: January 31, 2015, 02:23:42 PM »
We don't know for sure that they did.
The article posted from the Independent seems mostly to be what the prospective member for Brighton Pavilion said or thought.
Being a cautious kid I trust neither side farther than I can kick a lamp post.
So we don't know that a Spanish TV channel broke the story referencing transcripts of the McCanns statements, is that what you're saying?  Should be easy enough to verify I would have thought...

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Were there too many leaks in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #67 on: January 31, 2015, 02:31:10 PM »
So we don't know that a Spanish TV channel broke the story referencing transcripts of the McCanns statements, is that what you're saying?  Should be easy enough to verify I would have thought...

That is about what I said three or four posts ago but no one has verified it yet. I even asked you if you had such verification. Having now gone around in a circle I presume you don't.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Were there too many leaks in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #68 on: January 31, 2015, 02:33:34 PM »
That is about what I said three or four posts ago but no one has verified it yet. I even asked you if you had such verification. Having now gone around in a circle I presume you don't.
I didn't see that post, having jumped on here quickly in my lunch break.  About to jump off again, so maybe someone else can oblige...?

Offline Anna

Re: Were there too many leaks in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #69 on: January 31, 2015, 02:56:25 PM »
Telecinco Journalist refutes the Judiciary Police statement



The denial of the Judiciary Police (PJ), in a declaration issued on Monday, to the news piece aired by the TV channel Spanish Telecinco, where it was revealed an alleged statement of Kate McCann given to the police, a statement that would be under the secrecy of justice, where Kate criticized her daughter Madeleine, just a few hours before the girl disappeared on the 3rd of May of 2007, from the Ocean Club, in Praia da Luz, near to Lagos, deserve a reaction from the author of the surprising revelation.

In declarations, yesterday to the DN, the journalist Nacho Abad reaffirmed that it "is truthful" the content of the information disclosed by the Spanish TV channel, guaranteeing to have access to documents that can prove it.

"It surprises me that the McCann family says that it is true and that the Portuguese police say that it is false. But I do not want to take part in any battle between the McCanns and the PJ. I am going to keep on doing my work and try to find the truth about Madeleine's disappearance "emphasized Nacho Abad.

The journalist denied to have had as a source the McCann's spokesman, Clarence Mitchell - a conviction inside the PJ who thought that this situation was instigated in order to try to discredit the investigation and to find a pretext to avoid the re-enactment of the events in the night in which the child disappeared - or the Spanish agency of detectives M├®todo3, hired since September 2007 by the McCanns. And he didn't say anything further, stating that: "Obviously, I have to protect my source".

The case originated in a news piece aired last week by Telecinco about an alleged statement where Gerry and Kate McCann described to the PJ that hours before Madeleine had disappeared, their daughter questioned them on their absence in the previous night.

President of the Bar Association criticizes PJ



On the other side, in accordance with the TV Globe's Site, the President of the Bar, Ant├│nio Marinho Pinto, affirmed, on Monday, in a meeting in Lisbon with international correspondents, that the PJ " failed to recognize the lack of advancements in the Madeleine McCann's case", having the investigation of the case, in his perspective, arrived to "a dead end" and that "the police is unable to acknowledge that fact". For Marinho Pinto, the PJ dedicated the first months of the investigation "sending messages through the press about who were the guilty persons".

In this period, remembered the President of the Bar, the headlines of the press "were implying" that Gerry and Kate McCann were involved in Madeleine's disappearance, reinforcing in this sense criticism to the police actions in a country where much "is investigated for the newspapers", besides existing, in some cases, "frictions" between the different forces of national security.

Source: Diário de Notícias


http://3as.madeleinemccann.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9851&sid=5a298c97a7f20bcfd98485e53838f951

« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 04:49:43 PM by John »
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline John

Re: Were there too many leaks in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #70 on: January 31, 2015, 04:49:36 PM »
For information.  This is a new topic.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Was there too many leaks in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #71 on: January 31, 2015, 04:55:28 PM »
Telecinco Journalist refutes the Judiciary Police statement



The denial of the Judiciary Police (PJ), in a declaration issued on Monday, to the news piece aired by the TV channel Spanish Telecinco, where it was revealed an alleged statement of Kate McCann given to the police, a statement that would be under the secrecy of justice, where Kate criticized her daughter Madeleine, just a few hours before the girl disappeared on the 3rd of May of 2007, from the Ocean Club, in Praia da Luz, near to Lagos, deserve a reaction from the author of the surprising revelation.

In declarations, yesterday to the DN, the journalist Nacho Abad reaffirmed that it "is truthful" the content of the information disclosed by the Spanish TV channel, guaranteeing to have access to documents that can prove it.

"It surprises me that the McCann family says that it is true and that the Portuguese police say that it is false. But I do not want to take part in any battle between the McCanns and the PJ. I am going to keep on doing my work and try to find the truth about Madeleine's disappearance "emphasized Nacho Abad.

The journalist denied to have had as a source the McCann's spokesman, Clarence Mitchell - a conviction inside the PJ who thought that this situation was instigated in order to try to discredit the investigation and to find a pretext to avoid the re-enactment of the events in the night in which the child disappeared - or the Spanish agency of detectives M├®todo3, hired since September 2007 by the McCanns. And he didn't say anything further, stating that: "Obviously, I have to protect my source".

The case originated in a news piece aired last week by Telecinco about an alleged statement where Gerry and Kate McCann described to the PJ that hours before Madeleine had disappeared, their daughter questioned them on their absence in the previous night.

President of the Bar Association criticizes PJ



On the other side, in accordance with the TV Globe's Site, the President of the Bar, Ant├│nio Marinho Pinto, affirmed, on Monday, in a meeting in Lisbon with international correspondents, that the PJ " failed to recognize the lack of advancements in the Madeleine McCann's case", having the investigation of the case, in his perspective, arrived to "a dead end" and that "the police is unable to acknowledge that fact". For Marinho Pinto, the PJ dedicated the first months of the investigation "sending messages through the press about who were the guilty persons".

In this period, remembered the President of the Bar, the headlines of the press "were implying" that Gerry and Kate McCann were involved in Madeleine's disappearance, reinforcing in this sense criticism to the police actions in a country where much "is investigated for the newspapers", besides existing, in some cases, "frictions" between the different forces of national security.

Source: Diário de Notícias


http://3as.madeleinemccann.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9851&sid=5a298c97a7f20bcfd98485e53838f951
Well done Anna, I think that rather backs up the news article, ie: that it was official PJ statements by the McCanns that were leaked.  Still think Clarrie did it Faithlilly?  I expect you do....

Offline Carana

Re: Were there too many leaks in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #72 on: January 31, 2015, 05:33:03 PM »
The fact is Lyall almost everything the Portuguese police had in the way of evidence the Leicestershire police had access to too.



Due to the thirst for information from the media, every individual working in
Leicestershire supporting the Portuguese investigation signed a confidentiality
agreement. Messages were also disseminated to all staff to make them aware that
even private conversations with friends could be reported on in the me


(...)

During the investigation the media quoted, who they claimed to be, unnamed
Leicestershire police sources. These comments reported by the media bore little
resemblance to the facts. However, Leicestershire Constabulary did conduct an
enquiry to establish if any police employee could be identified as leaking
information to the media. No such person was identified.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140122145147/http:/www.levesoninquiry.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Witness-Statement-of-Chief-Constable-Matthew-Baggott.pdf

Offline Carana

Re: Were there too many leaks in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #73 on: January 31, 2015, 05:35:25 PM »
And the PJ would leak to the Spanish media because....... ?


Intermediaries? A lot of cash was floating around in those days.

Offline Carana

Re: Were there too many leaks in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #74 on: January 31, 2015, 06:46:09 PM »
No, Portuguese police and journo.

2.46pm: Daniel Sanderson's witness statement has now been published. It says that the former News of the World news editor Ian Edmondson approved a €18,000 payment to a Portuguese journalist for the Kate McCann diaries.

12.19pm: Sanderson explains how he got in touch with a Portuguese journalist and they discussed payment for a copy of the diary. Sanderson then liaised with the news editor at the time, Ian Edmondson.

Edmondson hired a freelancer, Gerard Couzens, who is based in Spain to travel to Portugal to meet the journalist and collect the diary.

Sanderson says he wasn't aware at the time that the ultimate source was the Portuguese police.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic17221.html


Statement of Daniel Sanderson
In response to the numbered questions set out in the letter from the Leveson Inquiry dated
2nd December 2011

1. Please explain exactly how NoW obtained a copy of Dr Kate McCann’s diary: you are not
required to name any sources, but you are required to identify the precise provenance of
the diary, explain the circumstances in which NoW received it, and confirm (if it be the
case) that it was of the original which had been seized by the Portuguese authorities.
A story appeared in The Sun newspaper on July 28, 2008, which said that extracts of Kate
McCann’s diary had emerged in Portugal, covering the first weeks after her daughter
Madeleine disappeared.

In the article there were two extracts that Mrs McCann had made in her diary.
I was asked by my news editor lan Edmondson to track down the person who was in
possession of the diary and was leaking extracts of it in Portugal.

After Mr Edmondson agreed, I called several newspapers in Portugal to ascertain who had
the diary.

I was put in touch with a journalist in Portugal who confirmed that they were in possession
of a copy of the diary and were willing to sell it to the NoW for, if my memory serves me
correctly, 18,000 Euros.

I believe the newspaper agreed to pay something like 9,000 Euros immediately and the rest
on publication of the story. The purchase was authorised by Mr Edmondson.

I liaised with Mr Edmondson and was told to ask a freelance journalist called Gerard
Couzens, who is based in Spain, to travel to Portugal to meet the journalist and collect the
diary.

From there my involvement ended until the diary reached the offices of the NoW.
My understanding is that Mr Edmondson took control of the diary’s delivery to our offices.
I believe that Mr Couzens met the journalist on Friday September 5, 2008 in Portugal and
paid her Euro 9,000 for a copy of the diary.

It’s my understanding that Mr Couzens delivered the diary to the NoW’s offices on Saturday
September 6, 2008.

It did not appear to be the original diary, but a copy that had been translated from English
into Portuguese.

2. Was the copy
NoW
obtained in English or Portuguese?
The NoW copy was in Portuguese.

3. What steps, if any, did you take to establish its authenticity and that it was a document
which you were entitled to possess?

Over the course of the working week commencing on Tuesday September 9th 2008, I
organised for the diary to be translated back into English using a London-based translation
service (I cannot recall the name).

It was a laborious task and the final section was completed on Friday September 12, 2008 -
two days before the story was published.

I spent the week writing the story as and when sections had been successfully translated.
In terms of its authenticity, we approached the diary from the viewpoint that it was a fake.
We had to cross check every entry against our online cuttings system to check that each

I was first made aware that the newspaper had the document when I returned to the office
after the weekend on Tuesday September 9, 2008.

Mr Edmondson showed me the diary that morning.

3. What steps, if any, did you take to establish its authenticity and that it was a document
which you were entitled to possess?

Over the course of the working week commencing on Tuesday September 9th 2008, I
organised for the diary to be translated back into English using a London-based translation
service (I cannot recall the name).

It was a laborious task and the final section was completed on Friday September 12, 2008 -
two days before the story was published.

I spent the week writing the story as and when sections had been successfully translated.
In terms of its authenticity, we approached the diary from the viewpoint that it was a fake.
We had to cross check every entry against our online cuttings system to check that each
entry was correct and the diary was genuine.

For example, if there was an entry where it said the McCanns had met The Pope that day,
I had to check in cuttings that newspapers had reported that the McCanns had indeed met
The Pope on the corresponding date.

My understanding of the situation was that the news editor, Mr Edmondson, would also
confirm with the McCann’s press spokesman Clarence Mitchell that the diary was genuine.

4. What was paid for the diary and to whom?

I believe 18,000 Euros were paid to the Portuguese journalist (the P J). It was paid in two
parts; 9,000 Euros up front and 9,000 Euros on publication. I can’t be certain of this figure,
but it is certainly a fairly accurate estimate. I am aware of the approximate figure because
that is the price that had been agreed with the PJ in my initial phone conversations with the
PJ. The PJ set the price, which I had communicated to Mr Edmondson. Mr Edmondson then
authorised both payments to the source. The PJ then contacted me after publication to
organise the second payment, which was authorised by Mr Edmondson.

(...)

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140122145147/http:/www.levesoninquiry.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Witness-Statement-of-Daniel-Sanderson.pdf


The journalist in question appears to be a woman if Sanderson is correct.

Way before this though, there were extracts published way back in the September 07 Portuguese anti-McCann media blitz.