Alcohol and the Reliability of Statements

[slartibartfast]

it strikes me reading a number of recent topics that some discrepancies in the statements of those concerned could be attributed to alcohol consumption. There doesn't appear to be any solid information in the files around the amount that was drunk but I would assume that the PJ would have tried to ascertain the condition of the witnesses so that they weigh the reliability of each. What does the forum think?

[pathfinder73]

Jane Tanner can't handle her drink or she transforms into a flip floppin' ninja after having a few 

[pathfinder73]

The McCanns have difficulty crying and are abnormal.

He found the parents to be nervous and anxious, he did not see any tears from either of them although they produced noises identical to crying. He did not feel that this was an abduction, although this was the line indicated by the father. (José María Batista Roque)

Mrs Fenn asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios.

He (Gerry) said something along the lines of there being Paedophile gangs in Portugal and that they had abducted Madeleine. I was so shocked by this, having originally thought that she had just wandered off. (Graham McKenzie)

[stephen25000]

No matter how some may hate this, the drinking issue won't go away.

[Benice]

it strikes me reading a number of recent topics that some discrepancies in the statements of those concerned could be attributed to alcohol consumption. There doesn't appear to be any solid information in the files around the amount that was drunk but I would assume that the PJ would have tried to ascertain the condition of the witnesses so that they weigh the reliability of each. What does the forum think?

AFAIK there are no reports of any of them being inebriated - either from the police - or from witnesses.

The wine came with the meal - which started at around 9.00p.m - the alarm was raised an hour later.  During that hour they consumed a three course meal.    Hardly time to become inebriated IMO.     Especially JT and Russell who both spent part of that hour away from the table and in their apartment - because their little girl was unwell.

AFAIK no-one know whether all the bottles or glasses were empty or not when the alarm was raised.  So even the number of bottles of wine provided doesn't necessarily give an accurate picture. IMO.

[stephen25000]

AFAIK there are no reports of any of them being inebriated - either from the police - or from witnesses.

The wine came with the meal - which started at around 9.00p.m - the alarm was raised an hour later.  During that hour they consumed a three course meal.    Hardly time to become inebriated IMO.     Especially JT and Russell who both spent part of that hour away from the table and in their apartment - because their little girl was unwell.

AFAIK no-one know whether all the bottles or glasses were empty or not when the alarm was raised.  So even the number of bottles of wine provided doesn't necessarily give an accurate picture. IMO.

They drank each night. FACT.

Alcohol distracts.  FACT.

[Benice]

The McCanns have difficulty crying and are abnormal.

He found the parents to be nervous and anxious, he did not see any tears from either of them although they produced noises identical to crying. He did not feel that this was an abduction, although this was the line indicated by the father. (José María Batista Roque)

Mrs Fenn asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios.

He (Gerry) said something along the lines of there being Paedophile gangs in Portugal and that they had abducted Madeleine. I was so shocked by this, having originally thought that she had just wandered off. (Graham McKenzie)

So all those people who commented on the truly horrendous, terrible state both Gerry and Kate were in  - are lying are they?  Surely you don't really believe that.

 IMO Gerry said 'Our little girl has been abducted' not   'A little girl........ '.   His Glasgow accent may have accounted for Mrs Fenn thinking the latter.

IMO virtually the first thing any parent would think is that their child had been taken by a paedaphile.  I know I would - and that is exactly what I thought when I first heard that Madeleine had been abducted.   That's why it's called 'every parent's worst nightmare' IMO

[Wonderfulspam]

Course, the McCanns system of checks was just like any baby listening service, wasn't it.

One where the baby listener gets pissed.

[Wonderfulspam]

So all those people who commented on the truly horrendous, terrible state both Gerry and Kate were in  - are lying are they?  Surely you don't really believe that.

 IMO Gerry said 'Our little girl has been abducted' not   'A little girl........ '.   His Glasgow accent may have accounted for Mrs Fenn thinking the latter.

IMO virtually the first thing any parent would think is that their child had been taken by a paedaphile.  I know I would - and that is exactly what I thought when I first heard that Madeleine had been abducted.   That's why it's called 'every parent's worst nightmare' IMO

Open window + empty bed = it was paedos wot dunnit.

Genius!

[ferryman]

In relation to alcohol consumption, it never appeared to me to be excessive. The wine was included in the dinner at Tapas and the functionaries were very generous in this respect. The permission was approximately one bottler per person . According to what I remember, and relative to the consumption of alcohol, there were seven bottles between the nine adults. I believe that on the first or second night they dined in the Tapas, they drank a bit more, perhaps eight or nine bottles of wine. I believe that they were also offered liquor this night, as they had been such good clients. The behaviour of the table did not change the night in questions. If anything, the group jested more than usual but no one appeared drunk.

Jeronimo Salcedas.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JERONIMO-SALCEDAS.htm

[Wonderfulspam]

In relation to alcohol consumption, it never appeared to me to be excessive. The wine was included in the dinner at Tapas and the functionaries were very generous in this respect. The permission was approximately one bottler per person . According to what I remember, and relative to the consumption of alcohol, there were seven bottles between the nine adults. I believe that on the first or second night they dined in the Tapas, they drank a bit more, perhaps eight or nine bottles of wine. I believe that they were also offered liquor this night, as they had been such good clients. The behaviour of the table did not change the night in questions. If anything, the group jested more than usual but no one appeared drunk.

Jeronimo Salcedas.

8 or 9 bottles divided by 9 = roughly a bottle each.

So, pissed they were then.

They certainly wouldn't be fit to drive anyways, & I wouldn't have them babysit.

[Wonderfulspam]

'The witness and her husband stayed in the apartment, relaxing, until 8.30pm. She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband.'

I doubt they shared the glass, so, one glass( 1.5 units) each before they left.

Plus a minimum of 1 or 2 glasses at the table = unfit to drive.

[Alice Purjorick]

'The witness and her husband stayed in the apartment, relaxing, until 8.30pm. She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband.'

I doubt they shared the glass, so, one glass( 1.5 units) each before they left.

Plus a minimum of 1 or 2 glasses at the table = unfit to drive.

Cue all the old bolleaux that came out when the breathalyser was introduced over here.
"I can drive better with three pints of Waddies in me" to
"I am much more lucid after I have consumed half a bottle of Chateau d'Yquem"
Despite all the evidence to the contrary.

[slartibartfast]

AFAIK there are no reports of any of them being inebriated - either from the police - or from witnesses.

The wine came with the meal - which started at around 9.00p.m - the alarm was raised an hour later.  During that hour they consumed a three course meal.    Hardly time to become inebriated IMO.     Especially JT and Russell who both spent part of that hour away from the table and in their apartment - because their little girl was unwell.

AFAIK no-one know whether all the bottles or glasses were empty or not when the alarm was raised.  So even the number of bottles of wine provided doesn't necessarily give an accurate picture. IMO.

Quite strange that the supporters claim that alcohol played no part in inconsistent statements. I would have thought it a good explanation.

[Brietta]

Dredging the depths just a little more than usual with this thread are we not?