Are there other cases of leaving children where the parents have been charged ?

[mercury]

Main road? Where were all the witnesses passing by in their cars?

What?

[misty]

What?

Main road = traffic = people.
Was 5a on a main road or were you just exaggerating for effect?

[mercury]

Main road = traffic = people.
Was 5a on a main road or were you just exaggerating for effect?

Im not exagerating anything, just stated the facts, your problem if you have a problem with them

[misty]

Im not exagerating anything, just stated the facts, your problem if you have a problem with them

The apartment was not open to a main road. It opened onto a small car park at one side & a minor road at the side.
The toddlers were left alone for minutes at a time, not hours or days. Abandoning young children while you visit Australia for 6 weeks - now THAT is extreme.

[mercury]

The apartment was not open to a main road. It opened onto a small car park at one side & a minor road at the side.
The toddlers were left alone for minutes at a time, not hours or days. Abandoning young children while you visit Australia for 6 weeks - now THAT is extreme.

it was a main road to all intents and purposes

your assertion they were left for MINUTES is preposterous at best

Your australia point is a joke, steady up man

[misty]

it was a main road to all intents and purposes

your assertion they were left for MINUTES is preposterous at best

Your australia point is a joke, steady up man

The road is the equivalent of a side road on any UK housing estate.
There were minutes, not hours, between checks.

As for Australia....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11261871/Mother-going-to-Asda-leaves-six-children-home-alone-to-fly-to-Australia.html
*snipped*
The 43-year-old, who cannot be named for legal reasons, left her 14-year-old son in charge when she went to stay with her Chinese boyfriend 9,000 miles away.
She left the children - the youngest of whom was three years old - at home in Birmingham on January 1 this year and did not return until February 20, when she was arrested.
The woman pleaded guilty to six counts of wilful abandonment at Birmingham Crown Court, where she was handed a six-month prison sentence suspended for two years.
Judge Murray Creed said it was "plainly a serious matter", but praised her teenage son for his "presence of mind" to call his grandparents.

The court heard the woman, who is now pregnant with her seventh child, had her flight paid for by a man she met online.
She left the house at 5pm on New Year's Day, telling her 14-year-old son he was in charge of the five other children while she went to the supermarket to buy food.
When she failed to return home four hours later, he called his grandparents, who do not live in Birmingham.
They alerted police and social services, who arrived at the house at 1am the following day.
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now THAT is extreme.

[mercury]

The road is the equivalent of a side road on any UK housing estate.
There were minutes, not hours, between checks.

As for Australia....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11261871/Mother-going-to-Asda-leaves-six-children-home-alone-to-fly-to-Australia.html
*snipped*
The 43-year-old, who cannot be named for legal reasons, left her 14-year-old son in charge when she went to stay with her Chinese boyfriend 9,000 miles away.
She left the children - the youngest of whom was three years old - at home in Birmingham on January 1 this year and did not return until February 20, when she was arrested.
The woman pleaded guilty to six counts of wilful abandonment at Birmingham Crown Court, where she was handed a six-month prison sentence suspended for two years.
Judge Murray Creed said it was "plainly a serious matter", but praised her teenage son for his "presence of mind" to call his grandparents.

The court heard the woman, who is now pregnant with her seventh child, had her flight paid for by a man she met online.
She left the house at 5pm on New Year's Day, telling her 14-year-old son he was in charge of the five other children while she went to the supermarket to buy food.
When she failed to return home four hours later, he called his grandparents, who do not live in Birmingham.
They alerted police and social services, who arrived at the house at 1am the following day.
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now THAT is extreme.

Why are you embroidering the truth! they were minutes but not one or two or three (as you suggest)  but at least 30 and probably more

steady on, oh, and not interested in newspaper articles, you shouldnt feel the need for them to back up any argument you have unless of course it wasnt strong enough ...cough

[misty]

Why are you embroidering the truth! they were minutes but not one or two or three (as you suggest)  but at least 30 and probably more

steady on, oh, and not interested in newspaper articles, you shouldnt feel the need for them to back up any argument you have unless of course it wasnt strong enough ...cough

30 minutes is still not an hour & does not constitute abandonment.
I have been politely told to provide cites to substantiate any outside information introduced on this forum - hence the newspaper article.
There are plenty more to illustrate extreme examples of parenting far worse than that of the McCanns & their friends, should you feel I am joking.

[Carew]

30 minutes is still not an hour & does not constitute abandonment.
I have been politely told to provide cites to substantiate any outside information introduced on this forum - hence the newspaper article.
There are plenty more to illustrate extreme examples of parenting far worse than that of the McCanns & their friends, should you feel I am joking.

Is there a time limit of some sort on "abandonment," then?

It seems to be the "intent" factor which legalised in some way the "abandonment and exposure to danger" aspect of the childcare arrangements.

[G-Unit]

30 minutes is still not an hour & does not constitute abandonment.
I have been politely told to provide cites to substantiate any outside information introduced on this forum - hence the newspaper article.
There are plenty more to illustrate extreme examples of parenting far worse than that of the McCanns & their friends, should you feel I am joking.

How long does it take for a child  to have an accident then?  Is there a time limit? Quoting worse behaviour doesn't excuse bad behaviour does it? The NSPCC are very clear; NEVER leave young children alone;

There might not be a specific legal age to leave children alone but it’s safe to say babies, toddlers and young children should never be left alone, even if it’s just while you pop down the road. Even if they’re sleeping peacefully when you leave they could well wake up and get very upset when you’re not there to look after them.
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/keeping-children-safe/leaving-child-home-alone/

[Benice]

How long does it take for a child  to have an accident then?  Is there a time limit? Quoting worse behaviour doesn't excuse bad behaviour does it? The NSPCC are very clear; NEVER leave young children alone;

There might not be a specific legal age to leave children alone but it’s safe to say babies, toddlers and young children should never be left alone, even if it’s just while you pop down the road. Even if they’re sleeping peacefully when you leave they could well wake up and get very upset when you’re not there to look after them.
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/keeping-children-safe/leaving-child-home-alone/

The vast majority of people  know what we should and shouldn't be doing as parents - and if no-one ever made a mistake or a wrong judgement there would be no kids in A&E rooms, no children drowning in baths and garden pools and no need for 'lost children' stations at holiday resorts etc. etc.

But we are not perfect human beings - and there is no such thing as a perfect parent. imo. 

What I don't understand it that out of all the millions of parents who have made human errors and unwittingly put their children in danger - sometimes fatal human errors -  - it is only the McCanns who for some reason must be villified and demonised year in year out for their human error.    Why is that?

And why don't all the other parents who still leave their children asleep in their rooms whilst on holiday and go to dinner inspite of knowing what happened to Madeleine - ever come in for a mention, let alone any criticism?

 I just don't get it.   It's irrational IMO.

[G-Unit]

The vast majority of people  know what we should and shouldn't be doing as parents - and if no-one ever made a mistake or a wrong judgement there would be no kids in A&E rooms, no children drowning in baths and garden pools and no need for 'lost children' stations at holiday resorts etc. etc.

But we are not perfect human beings - and there is no such thing as a perfect parent. imo. 

What I don't understand it that out of all the millions of parents who have made human errors and unwittingly put their children in danger - sometimes fatal human errors -  - it is only the McCanns who for some reason must be villified and demonised year in year out for their human error.    Why is that?

And why don't all the other parents who still leave their children asleep in their rooms whilst on holiday and go to dinner inspite of knowing what happened to Madeleine - ever come in for a mention, let alone any criticism?

 I just don't get it.   It's irrational IMO.

I agree, there is no such thing as a perfect parent. Accidents happen when you're there. There's a difference between a momentary lapse of judgement and a deliberate act, repeated over 5 nights. If other parents are leaving small children alone in unlocked apartments and going out to dinner they must be very stupid.

A mum who left her six-year-old son home alone for 45 minutes is fighting to get a caution for child neglect removed from her records.
http://www.parentdish.co.uk/2014/11/10/mum-who-left-six-year-old-home-alone-fights-to-strike-child-neglect-charge/

[Carew]

I agree, there is no such thing as a perfect parent. Accidents happen when you're there. There's a difference between a momentary lapse of judgement and a deliberate act, repeated over 5 nights. If other parents are leaving small children alone in unlocked apartments and going out to dinner they must be very stupid.

A mum who left her six-year-old son home alone for 45 minutes is fighting to get a caution for child neglect removed from her records.
http://www.parentdish.co.uk/2014/11/10/mum-who-left-six-year-old-home-alone-fights-to-strike-child-neglect-charge/

The archival summary, though, seems to imply that the repetition of the deliberate act over 5 nights serves to support or bear out the parents` assumption that it was "safe" because nothing had apparently occurred the previous nights!

Interesting, too that only criminality / abduction seems to be mentioned as a risk.



*snip*
"It seems evident to us and because the files contain enough elements for such, that the crime of exposure or abandonment according to article 138 of the Penal Code can be eliminated from that range:

 

"1 – Whoever places another person's life in danger,

 

a) By exposing her in a location where she is subject to a situation from which she, on her own, cannot defend herself against; or

 

b) Abandoning her without defence, whenever the agent had the duty to guard her, to watch over her or to assist her;"

 

This legal type of crime is only fulfilled with intent, and this intent has to cover the creation of danger to the victim's life, as well as the absence of a capacity to defend herself, on the victim's behalf. In the case of the files and facing the elements that were collected it is evident that none of the arguidos Gerald or Kate acted with intent. The parents could not foresee that in the resort that they chose to spend a brief holiday, they could place the life of any of their children in danger, nor was that demanded from them: it was located in a peaceful area, where most of the residents are foreign citizens of the same nationality and without any known history of this type of criminality.

 

The parents didn't even represent the realisation of the fact, they trusted that everything would go well, as it had gone on the previous evenings, thus not equating, nor was it demanded from them, the possibility of the occurrence of an abduction of any of the children that were in their respective apartments. "

[G-Unit]

Portuguese law is specific. UK law is none-existent really, all we have is advice and that is very clear.

[Brietta]

Portuguese law is specific. UK law is none-existent really, all we have is advice and that is very clear.

The fact remains that the McCanns were in Portugal.  Madeleine McCann went missing in Portugal.  Unclear or non-existent English law has no jurisdiction, as Mr Bennett went to great pains to confirm.

So what exactly is your problem that Portuguese Law has been quite explicit that Madeleine's parents are not at fault?

Why is it that the person who is never mentioned in this saga is the person responsible for the crime against Madeleine McCann?