It wasn't the first time a burglar got in via a window at the resort!

[Angelo222]

Several senior detectives arrived at the same conclusion ages ago.  For all anyone knows she fell down a storm drain or was hit by a car and carried off possibly by a driver who had initial good intentions to seek medical help.

[Brietta]

the evidence is...Maddie is missing....her parents have been ruled out....unlikely to have left apartment on her own and closed all doors behind her...that only leaves abduction or death at the hands of a stranger who then removed the body.....simple

Unknown traces in apartment 5a are also a factor.

Had Madeleine exited the apartment either via the door or via the window she would have left a trace.  Her fingerprints would have been on the window cill, or the window handle, on the shutter or even on all three; similarly, her fingerprints would have been found on the patio door and on the gates she would have had to open and close to exit that way. 

Unlike an intruder, she would not have had to take care not to leave hair, DNA or fingerprints.

IMO the window was opened for one of three reasons 

(a)  an opportunistic burglary when a sleepy Madeleine may have approached and was lifted out 

(b)  an escape route for a burglar who entered either via the patio door or who used a key 

(c)  the window was opened to pass Madeleine to an accomplice

If the latter, IMO it was a targeted abduction. 

If either of the former, IMO it was an attempted burglary gone wrong.

I wonder what the exit route was in the burglary when a plasma television was stolen ... bearing in mind these were not the almost credit card size width modern sets are ... they were substantial and heavy pieces of equipment.

[stephen25000]

Unknown traces in apartment 5a are also a factor.

Had Madeleine exited the apartment either via the door or via the window she would have left a trace.  Her fingerprints would have been on the window cill, or the window handle, on the shutter or even on all three; similarly, her fingerprints would have been found on the patio door and on the gates she would have had to open and close to exit that way. 

Unlike an intruder, she would not have had to take care not to leave hair, DNA or fingerprints.

IMO the window was opened for one of three reasons 

(a)  an opportunistic burglary when a sleepy Madeleine may have approached and was lifted out 

(b)  an escape route for a burglar who entered either via the patio door or who used a key 

(c)  the window was opened to pass Madeleine to an accomplice

If the latter, IMO it was a targeted abduction. 

If either of the former, IMO it was an attempted burglary gone wrong.

I wonder what the exit route was in the burglary when a plasma television was stolen ... bearing in mind these were not the almost credit card size width modern sets are ... they were substantial and heavy pieces of equipment.

and not a shred of evidence to prove it ever happened.

Unless you believe in make believe.

PS. Just to remind you, the open window has not been proved.

[Brietta]

and not a shred of evidence to prove it ever happened.

Unless you believe in make believe.

PS. Just to remind you, the open window has not been proved.

  ... that predictive text problem again Stephen; I'm sure if you really tried you could get it fixed; for sure if my PC kept repeating on a loop I would trade it in for one I could control and which made sense.

There is no evidence that Madeleine McCann's parents or any connected to them were capable of or responsible for harming her in any way whatsoever and that is inclusive of dumping her little body like so much trash.

There is evidence that burglaries involving assaults on little British girls were prevalent in the Algarve and near Praia da Luz at the time; although back in 2007 we had no idea.

Not only are there numerous accounts of burglaries taking place in the Algarve the latest of which which have become aggravated; the holiday complex and block 5 had incidents of burglaries which as late as last year Paul Luckman was still denying.

Again we had no idea in 2007 just how prevalent these were.  I think if people had been aware back then there would not have been such a credulous audience for our old friend - the source close to the PJ - and you and I may not have been having this exchange.

Time maybe you gave some thought to the evidence which is available to you rather than the lack of evidence and allow common sense to prevail.

[stephen25000]

  ... that predictive text problem again Stephen; I'm sure if you really tried you could get it fixed; for sure if my PC kept repeating on a loop I would trade it in for one I could control and which made sense.

There is no evidence that Madeleine McCann's parents or any connected to them were capable of or responsible for harming her in any way whatsoever and that is inclusive of dumping her little body like so much trash.

There is evidence that burglaries involving assaults on little British girls were prevalent in the Algarve and near Praia da Luz at the time; although back in 2007 we had no idea.

Not only are there numerous accounts of burglaries taking place in the Algarve the latest of which which have become aggravated; the holiday complex and block 5 had incidents of burglaries which as late as last year Paul Luckman was still denying.

Again we had no idea in 2007 just how prevalent these were.  I think if people had been aware back then there would not have been such a credulous audience for our old friend - the source close to the PJ - and you and I may not have been having this exchange.

Time maybe you gave some thought to the evidence which is available to you rather than the lack of evidence and allow common sense to prevail.

Just to remind you brietta.

No evidence of a burglary.

No evidence of an abduction.

......and that my dear is common sense.

[Brietta]

and not a shred of evidence to prove it ever happened.

Unless you believe in make believe.

PS. Just to remind you, the open window has not been proved.

PS.  Just to remind you ... Witness statement of Amy Tierney 2007/05/06
 
She confirms that, on the night of the disappearance she was on duty and immediately went to the bedroom to see if the girl was hiding. She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding.

The first idea that occurred to her was that the girl could have left by her own means, however after checking that the window was open and the shutter raised she asked the parents whether Madeleine’s shoes were there, to which they replied that they were, these facts led her to think that Madeleine could have been taken by someone.

However there was a bed against the window, which could have enabled the girl to climb up onto it and then up to the window, the witness thinks it would not be possible as she would not be able to open the shutters and even if she had done so she would have fallen outside as the window is too high for a child of that age to be able to descend without falling.


You really do not know better than the independent witnesses who were on the premises in the immediate aftermath of Madeleine being discovered missing and who were able to give a witness statement to that effect.

[stephen25000]

PS.  Just to remind you ... Witness statement of Amy Tierney 2007/05/06
 
She confirms that, on the night of the disappearance she was on duty and immediately went to the bedroom to see if the girl was hiding. She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding.

The first idea that occurred to her was that the girl could have left by her own means, however after checking that the window was open and the shutter raised she asked the parents whether Madeleine’s shoes were there, to which they replied that they were, these facts led her to think that Madeleine could have been taken by someone.

However there was a bed against the window, which could have enabled the girl to climb up onto it and then up to the window, the witness thinks it would not be possible as she would not be able to open the shutters and even if she had done so she would have fallen outside as the window is too high for a child of that age to be able to descend without falling.


You really do not know better than the independent witnesses who were on the premises in the immediate aftermath of Madeleine being discovered missing and who were able to give a witness statement to that effect.

That only proves the window was open after the 'alert'.

NOT BEFORE.

[Lyall]

PS.  Just to remind you ... Witness statement of Amy Tierney 2007/05/06
 
She confirms that, on the night of the disappearance she was on duty and immediately went to the bedroom to see if the girl was hiding. She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding.

The first idea that occurred to her was that the girl could have left by her own means, however after checking that the window was open and the shutter raised she asked the parents whether Madeleine’s shoes were there, to which they replied that they were, these facts led her to think that Madeleine could have been taken by someone.

However there was a bed against the window, which could have enabled the girl to climb up onto it and then up to the window, the witness thinks it would not be possible as she would not be able to open the shutters and even if she had done so she would have fallen outside as the window is too high for a child of that age to be able to descend without falling.


You really do not know better than the independent witnesses who were on the premises in the immediate aftermath of Madeleine being discovered missing and who were able to give a witness statement to that effect.

Give over, Brietta, even the six immediately alerted never said they saw an open window.

It may have been open x minutes later when Tierney showed up however.

[Alice Purjorick]

  This site must have numbed my brain; I have only just cottoned on to how dozy this thread title is.
Given that you are going to knock over a home and that you are not Zeus (read about Zeus and Danae) or Rubber Bones Webb (Google him if you are much under 70!) there is a limited choice of ways to get in i.e through a door or a window*. So is it a surprise some burglars have used windows as a means of access?

* I suppose a D8 through the walls would work on the ground floor.

[Alfred R Jones]

This site must have numbed my brain; I have only just cottoned on to how dozy this thread title is.
Given that you are going to knock over a home and that you are not Zeus (read about Zeus and Danae) or Rubber Bones Webb (Google him if you are much under 70!) there is a limited choice of ways to get in i.e through a door or a window*. So is it a surprise some burglars have used windows as a means of access?

* I suppose a D8 through the walls would work on the ground floor.

I believe this is one of those 'fake' threads started not by the OP but by John when separating a discussion that originated on another thread so perhaps you should address your complaint regarding the 'dozy' title  to him...?

[Mr Gray]

This site must have numbed my brain; I have only just cottoned on to how dozy this thread title is.
Given that you are going to knock over a home and that you are not Zeus (read about Zeus and Danae) or Rubber Bones Webb (Google him if you are much under 70!) there is a limited choice of ways to get in i.e through a door or a window*. So is it a surprise some burglars have used windows as a means of access?

* I suppose a D8 through the walls would work on the ground floor.

many of the threads are dozy seeing as the McCanns are not suspects and have nothing to do with the disappearance of Maddie

[Brietta]

Everything is a bit dozy and probably will be until we get something new to discuss ... back to (dozy topic) ...

Burglaries seem to be a huge problem in the Algarve. 

It seems burglars have no compunction about entering premises whether occupied or unoccupied. 
They were happening long before Madeleine vanished from her bed and are still going on today.

I think that possibly the main problem with them, apart from the fact they seem to occur with impunity, is the climate of denial which has allowed them to flourish.

When at last something really valuable was taken the urgency to get the case done and dusted must have been palpable.  I think Madeleine McCann and her parents may well have been the victims of ensuring the tourist trade emerged from this hiccup unscathed.

I went to stay at the Villa Kings in...

Although the Villa was nice we were broken into on the 11th day of our stay while we were asleep in bed they took all our money, left us with nothing, Cosmos did not even apologise for this and the patio was damaged as they must of tried to get in through that way but they ended up coming through the window of which my mother in law was asleep at the time and the neighbours Villa the Estelle was also robbed as they were asleep.

https://www.holidaywatchdog.com/35050-Gale-Kings_Villa-Holiday-Review.html


Receptionist Dawn Turp was 17 when burglars struck at her family’s holiday home in Praia da Luz twice in five months.

She saw one man from the back and got a good look at his getaway car, a silver Ford Ka.

In the first burglary in 2001 she saw a man leaving with stolen items in a towel.

Dawn, 29, said: “He was foreign looking, possibly Portuguese, with short dark hair.

"I didn’t get a look at his face but I will never forget the Ford Ka bubble car he got into.

"As soon as he got in, it roared off, so I think there must have been a driver.”

Five months later Dawn and her friend awoke to find phones, cash and credit cards had been taken from their bedroom.

Dawn said: “It could well have been the same people who burgled us before, they seemed to know the layout.”

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/473937/British-tourist-s-burglary-clue-that-could-help-Madeleine-McCann-mystery

[stephen25000]

....and where is the evidence of burglary in the apartment ?

After all, gerry mccann said himself.........

''Nothing of value was taken from the apartment''

Which was quite true.

No burglary.

Nothing was taken.

[Benice]

....and where is the evidence of burglary in the apartment ?

After all, gerry mccann said himself.........

''Nothing of value was taken from the apartment''

Which was quite true.

No burglary.

Nothing was taken.

  No-one has ever claimed that a burglary took place at 5A on 3rd May.  - so I don't see the point of your post. 

[stephen25000]

No-one has ever claimed that a burglary took place at 5A on 3rd May.  - so I don't see the point of your post.

So what is the point of this thread ?