Author Topic: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.  (Read 217863 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #390 on: February 27, 2019, 11:34:33 AM »
Holly,

What's your view of why the other interesting Phone data was not made available.. we know from discussion that there was a lot more phone activity going on and if the theory is correct it could make the case against the two men unsafe.  What puzzles me is how this works in court... from what I've read it looks like the prosecution have possibly cherry picked the data they want that looks at first glance to put the two men in the frame but ignores other possible evidence that could be contrary this. I guess what I'm trying to ascertain is, can you only work with the evidence you have, supplied by the police or can you go and get your own evidence... I'm thinking this is possibly a dumb question but I have to ask it as I'm unsure why the defence never looked at all the other phone data?  thanks

I will have to check out with others what the legal position is but I would be astounded if the defence were unable to say to the prosecution ok you want to assert our clients were in the vicinity of soc at the time you believe the victims were murdered based on a phone call Tate received on his mobile at 18.44.  Can you show us the cell data placing Tate's mobile close to soc at 18.44.  I would think it wouldnhave been possible for the defence to carry out their own checks to determine how many phones the various players used and have all of them forensically examined in terms of data. 

Defence teams do make mistakes.  Bearing in mind this sort of evidence was new anyway coupled with the fact the solicitor only qualified in 1995.  No other profession would allow someone with so little experience to handle such a complex and serious case.  It's surely why we have a range of medical professionals ranging from junior doctors to consultants at the top of their field.   You would expect a solicitor handling a case of this magnitude to be on par with medical consultants not a junior doctor.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #391 on: February 27, 2019, 11:51:16 AM »
I totally agree, some of it sounds very implausible to say the least.. between the day of the murders and the first statements there must have been a lot of behind the scenes discussions going on..

I don't know whether all of the statements have made available but there appears to be nothing from Anna Whitehead or other key individuals..

You asked about Clare.. one of Pat Tate's acquaintances...  below

06/02/96 - STATEMENT of SUSAN ANNE CAREY

NAME: SUSAN ANNE CAREY
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 52 05031943

Who states:- This statement consisting of 003 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 060296
S A CAREY (SIGNED)

I live with my family in the Eastwood area. I have four daughters the youngest of whom is Claire. Claire is twenty three years old. On and off Claire lives at home but spends time with her boyfiend. At present Claire works at TGI Fridays at the Lakeside complex in West Thurrock, however she had previously worked in Southend at a restaurant called 'Sellars' and I believe that a Kim WEBBER was the owner.

It was through Claire's association with the restaurant and Kim that she became acquainted with Pat TATE. My first impression of Pat was only from what Claire told me and I first became aware of Claire actually seeing Pat was when he was at hospital having been shot in the arm.

I had only ever met Pat once when he came to the door at my house calling for Claire. I was aware that Pat also served some time is prison and that he would keep in contact with Claire when he got out. It was only a couple of months ago when he must have been released because I started getting phone calls from Pat.

He would be very polite and ask for Claire and more often than not she wasn't in and he would apologise for troubling me and ask that I leave a message for Claire to contact him. I approached Claire and one stage and voiced my concern because I didn't really want my daughter getting involved with him because of his past.

Claire assured me that she wasn't. The last time I had any contact with Pat TATE was on Wednesday 061295 when he phoned me at home around 1800 hours.

He had rung several times earlier in the day asking for Claire and on the final occasion Claire still wasn't back from work and Pat said that he had to go out for about half an hour but asked that I tell Claire to hang on as he would be back. Pat didn't sound concerned or worried on the phone.

The only other contact I had was later that evening from Claire herself sating she had been waiting outside Pat's for ages and he hadn't turned up so she was going to go back to her boyfriends'. When Pat last rang he sounded like he was at home because he said 'please tell her to hold on'.

He explained that he was thinking about leaving a note in his door for Claire but didn't know whether he would bother now. Whenever Pat rang up he would always introduce himself as Pat TATE and I had no doubts that it was not him.

S A CAREY SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 060296
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:

Hmmm  *%87

Ok so these people were single to all intents and purposes but it seems 'Claire' has another boyfriend too and as far as Lizzie Fletcher was concerned she was Tate's girlfriend.  Lizzie Fletcher had been with Tate earlier in the day  to Basildon Tyre Services where her VW polo was checked in to have work carried out and she drove away in Tate's black Mercedes.

Do you have a wit stat from Claire or are we just hearing from Ms Carey who claims to be the mother? 

I don't have time right now to read this properly so will look again later.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #392 on: February 27, 2019, 11:59:50 AM »
Holly,

To be fair to the youtuber, his style is more aligned to stating what he believes to be the facts from documents with some supposition.. the comments section is then left to the viewer to put their take on it. However, this particular video is drawn from the statement below where it says Donna Jaggers called the police to deal with the weapon..

08/02/96 - STATEMENT of DONNAH LYNN JAGGERS

NAME: DONNAH LYNN JAGGERS
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 26 27101969

Who states:- This statement consisting of 008 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 080296
D L JAGGERS (SIGNED)

I am the girlfriend of Craig ROLFE and have known him for fifteen years. We first met when I moved to Basildon with my parents. I started going out with Craig when I was 18 but that was quite a casual relationship.

In 000088, just after my 19th birthday, we started a serious relationship and soon after that I moved in with his parents at *** , Basildon. I fell pregnant and in 001289 I gave birth to our daughter Georgie. We had moved into a hostel and were then given 105 Spurriers, Laindon.

During this time Craig was working on building sites doing dry lining. We then moved to 21 Bardfield, Vange but I can not be sure of dates or when this was. In 000394 Craig bought 8 Calshot Avenue, Chafford Hundred, Grays. The house at Bardfield was in my name and I managed to swap this house through the council for my current address.

The neighbours at Bardfield were very nosey and I wanted to avoid problems due to the fact that I only went back there once a week to collect mail etc. I took my current address with a view to buying it and then renting it out. My reationship with Craig was strong.

He trusted me and told me most things that he was up to. In 000595 I had had enough of the drugs. He was using them himself and involved with them and dealing. I moved out of the Calshots address and went to my current address. After about three weeks Craig came back and told me that he was going to make an effort to kick his drug habit.

I knew instinctively that he meant this and we went away on holiday to the Norfolk Broads for a week. When we came back he had one lapse but stuck to it. Most weekends Craig used to go out and I knew that he took smaller amounts of cocaine and used ecstasy but not on the scale that he had been.

I was aware that Craig's associates were Tony TUCKER and Patrick TATE. During the mid to end of 001195 I was aware that they had something going on which at this time I am not willing to discuss. Craig told me that he was going to pick up a machine gun with a silencer and ammunition for their business.

He told me that it was coming from a man I know as Mad Mick who comes from London. I do know that this person is Mick BOWMAN. I asked Craig how much the gun was going to cost and he told me that it was being borrowed and was going back to BOWMAN.

About a week after Tony's birthday, which was 171100, I went with Craig and others, who I do not want to name, to Hollywoods nightclub in Romford. BOWMAN was supposed to have met us in the Global Net Cafe beforehand but he didn't turn up. I then met him through Craig in the nightclub.

I recall thinking that he wasn't what I had expected. Craig had told me stories about him. He was with a girl who I only know as Debbie. About a week after this, I can be no more precise than this, Craig told me that we were going to meet Mick at the Thurrock services to collect the gun.

I went with Craig in the blue Range Rover, F424NPE to the services and had something to eat in the Granada premises. I knew that we were supposed to meet BOWMAN about 1300 hours but he was about ten minutes late. Craig went outside and returned shortly and told me I was to go outside with them.

When I got outside I saw that BOWMAN was there with a white V.W. Corado car and there was another male with an old green Vauxhall Cavalier. BOWMAN was acting very paranoid and I took it that he was on cocaine and was acting hyper because of the situation with the gun.

I am aware how people behave when they have taken cocaine and that is how BOWMAN appeared to me. BOWMAN was trying to organise how they should drive off to a different location. Craig then suggested we should lead, the Cavalier should go in the middle and then BOWMAN at the end.

This only took a matter of minutes. Craig and I then got into the Range Rover and drove onto the A13 and travelled along to the Five Bells roundabout. We then came all the way round the Five Bells roundabout and Craig pulled up onto the Eastern Garages parking area.

The Cavalier parked behind us and BOWMAN parked the Coracle behind that. We all got out and I started to walk away to stay out of the way. I saw a blue/grey holdall come out of the boot of the Cavalier and go into the boot of the Range Rover.

The driver of the Cavalier was a small man about 5'6 tall, early twenties or early thirties, of thin build, he had short cropped hair and wore glasses. I did not hear him speak. I am unable to say who took the holdall out of the Cavalier but I believe Craig would probably have put it in the Range Rover because he was impatient like that.

Craig called me back to the car and I got into the front of the Range Rover. I recall BOWMAN got into the back of the car and told Craig that he wanted the Range Rover once Craig had finished with it. BOWMAN then got out of the car and Craig and I drove off and went to Patrick TATE's bungalow in Gordon Road, Basildon.

Craig had told me that TATE had spoken with the garage proprietor at Eastern Garages a man called Barry DOORMAN, and told him that he had to buy BOWMAN'S Corado. I was aware that BOWMAN was going to stay behind at the garage and speak to DOORMAN about this.

I recall seeing the two men walking towards one another when I was in the Range Rover. When we arrived outside Pat's house, Pat and Tony TUCKER were sitting in Anna WHITEHEAD's (TUCKER's girlfriend) Suzuki Vitara. I can not remember if Craig had spoken to them on his mobile phone prior to arriving at the house.

Tony and Pat got out of the Vitara and Craig took the holdall and gun from the boot and all three went into the house. Sarah SAUNDERS was at this time moving her stuff out of the house with the help of two friends. I didn't want to get involved in what was potentially a difficult situation, so I stayed in the car.

Craig was in the house for about ten to fifteen minutes and then returned to the car with the holdall and gun. He put the items back in the boot and then drove to 108 Mill Green where the gun and holdall were put into the loft. On the way from Gordon Road Craig was saying how pleased they were with it and how much damage it could cause.

I did not see the gun at this time. A couple of days later Craig picked me up from work and told me that Tony, Pat and him had tested the gun. He stated that it was tested over at Tony's Fobbing address in the field. He told me that he had cleaned it all and that he had put it back in the loft.

He told me that he had cleaned his fingerprints off the gun as I was concerned about this. The next thing that happened was that Craig, Tony and Pat were found shot dead. I had a lot of things on my mind but I realised the machine gun was a problem but I knew the Police didn't know about the Mill Green address and I thought it was be safe to leave it here.

During the Christmas period of 000095 Craig's brother moved my belongings from Chafford Hundred to the Mill Green address. First thing after New Year 000096 I moved into Mill Green. I had only been in the house for a couple of days when I decided that I was going to have to do something about the gun.

I spoke to Craig's mum about it and she suggested that I took it round to her house. She was trying to get me to sort it out. I put the holdall on the dining room table and I opened the bag. Until this point I had not seen the gun. It was a dull silvery grey colour.

I only opened the top of the bag and did not see the silencer or ammunition, however I believed they were in there because Craig had told me. I was now in a position where I had to make a decision as to what I was going to do about it. I left the gun in the bag and left it with Craig's mother.

A couple of days later I contacted D.I. FLORENCE who came to see me the next day. I only told him that I wanted to see him but didn't tell him what it was about. About 1145 on Thursday 110196 D.I. FLORENCE came to see me at Mill Green and I told him about the gun at Craig's mother's house.

I then took Mr FLORENCE to 158 Beambridge, Basildon where I saw Craig's mother. I asked her where she had put the holdall. I then went to the shower room which is on the ground floor and put the holdall on the dining table for Mr FLORENCE to see. He asked if any of us had touched it and he took it into his possession.

At this time this all I can say about the gun. Referring back to the V.W. Corado I am aware that from talking to Craig that the vehicle was purchased by Eastern Garages and I believe BOWMAN was given about seven thousand pounds. Craig told me that BOWMAN had payed about ten thousand pounds for it.

D L JAGGERS SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 080296
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:

Is it possible the witnesses who said they saw a Sierra Cosworth with a Range Rover on 6th Dec might have been mistaken and the vehicle was in fact a VW Corrado?

Were these witnesses/testimony checked out as authentic? 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #393 on: February 27, 2019, 12:23:17 PM »
I totally agree, some of it sounds very implausible to say the least.. between the day of the murders and the first statements there must have been a lot of behind the scenes discussions going on..

I don't know whether all of the statements have made available but there appears to be nothing from Anna Whitehead or other key individuals..

You asked about Clare.. one of Pat Tate's acquaintances...  below

06/02/96 - STATEMENT of SUSAN ANNE CAREY

NAME: SUSAN ANNE CAREY
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 52 05031943

Who states:- This statement consisting of 003 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 060296
S A CAREY (SIGNED)

I live with my family in the Eastwood area. I have four daughters the youngest of whom is Claire. Claire is twenty three years old. On and off Claire lives at home but spends time with her boyfiend. At present Claire works at TGI Fridays at the Lakeside complex in West Thurrock, however she had previously worked in Southend at a restaurant called 'Sellars' and I believe that a Kim WEBBER was the owner.

It was through Claire's association with the restaurant and Kim that she became acquainted with Pat TATE. My first impression of Pat was only from what Claire told me and I first became aware of Claire actually seeing Pat was when he was at hospital having been shot in the arm.

I had only ever met Pat once when he came to the door at my house calling for Claire. I was aware that Pat also served some time is prison and that he would keep in contact with Claire when he got out. It was only a couple of months ago when he must have been released because I started getting phone calls from Pat.

He would be very polite and ask for Claire and more often than not she wasn't in and he would apologise for troubling me and ask that I leave a message for Claire to contact him. I approached Claire and one stage and voiced my concern because I didn't really want my daughter getting involved with him because of his past.

Claire assured me that she wasn't. The last time I had any contact with Pat TATE was on Wednesday 061295 when he phoned me at home around 1800 hours.

He had rung several times earlier in the day asking for Claire and on the final occasion Claire still wasn't back from work and Pat said that he had to go out for about half an hour but asked that I tell Claire to hang on as he would be back. Pat didn't sound concerned or worried on the phone.

The only other contact I had was later that evening from Claire herself sating she had been waiting outside Pat's for ages and he hadn't turned up so she was going to go back to her boyfriends'. When Pat last rang he sounded like he was at home because he said 'please tell her to hold on'.

He explained that he was thinking about leaving a note in his door for Claire but didn't know whether he would bother now. Whenever Pat rang up he would always introduce himself as Pat TATE and I had no doubts that it was not him.

S A CAREY SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 060296
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:

The only registered UK birth for a Claire Carey 23 yoa in 1996 is coming up as a Joanne Claire Carey:

https://www.findmypast.com/search/results?sourcecategory=life+events+%28bmds%29&firstname=claire&lastname=carey&yearofbirth=1972&yearofbirth_offset=0&keywordsplace=essex
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Chud

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #394 on: February 27, 2019, 01:09:12 PM »
Is it possible the witnesses who said they saw a Sierra Cosworth with a Range Rover on 6th Dec might have been mistaken and the vehicle was in fact a VW Corrado?

Were these witnesses/testimony checked out as authentic?

Quite possibly, they are similar aren'y they.. If it's the Rebecca Carr testimony, this appears to be a good sighting as she believes from police photographs that Tate was inside as they were parked at traffic lights. The better sighting was Andrew Charles Reynolds at 18:05 in Basildon..  However, Rebecca Carr states she believed the white car (Sierra) was a C registered plate, the VW Corrado was a J registered plate.

Offline Myster

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #395 on: February 27, 2019, 06:13:49 PM »
Fake number plates?

VW Corrado...



Sierra Cosworth...

It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #396 on: February 27, 2019, 06:16:31 PM »
Holly,

To be fair to the youtuber, his style is more aligned to stating what he believes to be the facts from documents with some supposition.. the comments section is then left to the viewer to put their take on it. However, this particular video is drawn from the statement below where it says Donna Jaggers called the police to deal with the weapon..

08/02/96 - STATEMENT of DONNAH LYNN JAGGERS

NAME: DONNAH LYNN JAGGERS
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 26 27101969

Who states:- This statement consisting of 008 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 080296
D L JAGGERS (SIGNED)

I am the girlfriend of Craig ROLFE and have known him for fifteen years. We first met when I moved to Basildon with my parents. I started going out with Craig when I was 18 but that was quite a casual relationship.

In 000088, just after my 19th birthday, we started a serious relationship and soon after that I moved in with his parents at *** , Basildon. I fell pregnant and in 001289 I gave birth to our daughter Georgie. We had moved into a hostel and were then given 105 Spurriers, Laindon.

During this time Craig was working on building sites doing dry lining. We then moved to 21 Bardfield, Vange but I can not be sure of dates or when this was. In 000394 Craig bought 8 Calshot Avenue, Chafford Hundred, Grays. The house at Bardfield was in my name and I managed to swap this house through the council for my current address.

The neighbours at Bardfield were very nosey and I wanted to avoid problems due to the fact that I only went back there once a week to collect mail etc. I took my current address with a view to buying it and then renting it out. My reationship with Craig was strong.

He trusted me and told me most things that he was up to. In 000595 I had had enough of the drugs. He was using them himself and involved with them and dealing. I moved out of the Calshots address and went to my current address. After about three weeks Craig came back and told me that he was going to make an effort to kick his drug habit.

I knew instinctively that he meant this and we went away on holiday to the Norfolk Broads for a week. When we came back he had one lapse but stuck to it. Most weekends Craig used to go out and I knew that he took smaller amounts of cocaine and used ecstasy but not on the scale that he had been.

I was aware that Craig's associates were Tony TUCKER and Patrick TATE. During the mid to end of 001195 I was aware that they had something going on which at this time I am not willing to discuss. Craig told me that he was going to pick up a machine gun with a silencer and ammunition for their business.

He told me that it was coming from a man I know as Mad Mick who comes from London. I do know that this person is Mick BOWMAN. I asked Craig how much the gun was going to cost and he told me that it was being borrowed and was going back to BOWMAN.

About a week after Tony's birthday, which was 171100, I went with Craig and others, who I do not want to name, to Hollywoods nightclub in Romford. BOWMAN was supposed to have met us in the Global Net Cafe beforehand but he didn't turn up. I then met him through Craig in the nightclub.

I recall thinking that he wasn't what I had expected. Craig had told me stories about him. He was with a girl who I only know as Debbie. About a week after this, I can be no more precise than this, Craig told me that we were going to meet Mick at the Thurrock services to collect the gun.

I went with Craig in the blue Range Rover, F424NPE to the services and had something to eat in the Granada premises. I knew that we were supposed to meet BOWMAN about 1300 hours but he was about ten minutes late. Craig went outside and returned shortly and told me I was to go outside with them.

When I got outside I saw that BOWMAN was there with a white V.W. Corado car and there was another male with an old green Vauxhall Cavalier. BOWMAN was acting very paranoid and I took it that he was on cocaine and was acting hyper because of the situation with the gun.

I am aware how people behave when they have taken cocaine and that is how BOWMAN appeared to me. BOWMAN was trying to organise how they should drive off to a different location. Craig then suggested we should lead, the Cavalier should go in the middle and then BOWMAN at the end.

This only took a matter of minutes. Craig and I then got into the Range Rover and drove onto the A13 and travelled along to the Five Bells roundabout. We then came all the way round the Five Bells roundabout and Craig pulled up onto the Eastern Garages parking area.

The Cavalier parked behind us and BOWMAN parked the Coracle behind that. We all got out and I started to walk away to stay out of the way. I saw a blue/grey holdall come out of the boot of the Cavalier and go into the boot of the Range Rover.

The driver of the Cavalier was a small man about 5'6 tall, early twenties or early thirties, of thin build, he had short cropped hair and wore glasses. I did not hear him speak. I am unable to say who took the holdall out of the Cavalier but I believe Craig would probably have put it in the Range Rover because he was impatient like that.

Craig called me back to the car and I got into the front of the Range Rover. I recall BOWMAN got into the back of the car and told Craig that he wanted the Range Rover once Craig had finished with it. BOWMAN then got out of the car and Craig and I drove off and went to Patrick TATE's bungalow in Gordon Road, Basildon.

Craig had told me that TATE had spoken with the garage proprietor at Eastern Garages a man called Barry DOORMAN, and told him that he had to buy BOWMAN'S Corado. I was aware that BOWMAN was going to stay behind at the garage and speak to DOORMAN about this.

I recall seeing the two men walking towards one another when I was in the Range Rover. When we arrived outside Pat's house, Pat and Tony TUCKER were sitting in Anna WHITEHEAD's (TUCKER's girlfriend) Suzuki Vitara. I can not remember if Craig had spoken to them on his mobile phone prior to arriving at the house.

Tony and Pat got out of the Vitara and Craig took the holdall and gun from the boot and all three went into the house. Sarah SAUNDERS was at this time moving her stuff out of the house with the help of two friends. I didn't want to get involved in what was potentially a difficult situation, so I stayed in the car.

Craig was in the house for about ten to fifteen minutes and then returned to the car with the holdall and gun. He put the items back in the boot and then drove to 108 Mill Green where the gun and holdall were put into the loft. On the way from Gordon Road Craig was saying how pleased they were with it and how much damage it could cause.

I did not see the gun at this time. A couple of days later Craig picked me up from work and told me that Tony, Pat and him had tested the gun. He stated that it was tested over at Tony's Fobbing address in the field. He told me that he had cleaned it all and that he had put it back in the loft.

He told me that he had cleaned his fingerprints off the gun as I was concerned about this. The next thing that happened was that Craig, Tony and Pat were found shot dead. I had a lot of things on my mind but I realised the machine gun was a problem but I knew the Police didn't know about the Mill Green address and I thought it was be safe to leave it here.

During the Christmas period of 000095 Craig's brother moved my belongings from Chafford Hundred to the Mill Green address. First thing after New Year 000096 I moved into Mill Green. I had only been in the house for a couple of days when I decided that I was going to have to do something about the gun.

I spoke to Craig's mum about it and she suggested that I took it round to her house. She was trying to get me to sort it out. I put the holdall on the dining room table and I opened the bag. Until this point I had not seen the gun. It was a dull silvery grey colour.

I only opened the top of the bag and did not see the silencer or ammunition, however I believed they were in there because Craig had told me. I was now in a position where I had to make a decision as to what I was going to do about it. I left the gun in the bag and left it with Craig's mother.

A couple of days later I contacted D.I. FLORENCE who came to see me the next day. I only told him that I wanted to see him but didn't tell him what it was about. About 1145 on Thursday 110196 D.I. FLORENCE came to see me at Mill Green and I told him about the gun at Craig's mother's house.

I then took Mr FLORENCE to 158 Beambridge, Basildon where I saw Craig's mother. I asked her where she had put the holdall. I then went to the shower room which is on the ground floor and put the holdall on the dining table for Mr FLORENCE to see. He asked if any of us had touched it and he took it into his possession.

At this time this all I can say about the gun. Referring back to the V.W. Corado I am aware that from talking to Craig that the vehicle was purchased by Eastern Garages and I believe BOWMAN was given about seven thousand pounds. Craig told me that BOWMAN had payed about ten thousand pounds for it.

D L JAGGERS SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 080296
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:

I've re-read the first couple of paras and I detect a bit of council housing fraud  ?>)()<

DJ claims the council house she shared with Rolfe at Barfield was in her name.  Rolfe then bought the property in Chafford Hundred in March 1994.  It appears she maintained the council owned property at Barfield but managed to swap it for the council house she moved into post murders at Mill Green.   The house at Mill Green being the house the machine gun was stored at.  How many other council properties did she have?  Bearing in mind she was living with Rolfe at Chafford Hundred.

Essex Police:  Do you realise sub-letting multiple council properties is a criminal offence?

https://www.gov.uk/council-housing/council-housing-fraud

DJ:  Turns on water works

Essex Police:  If you can help us we might be able to help you sort this mess out.  After all you wouldn't want to be parted from your 6 year old daughter by serving a custodial sentence would you?  We also found a sub-machine gun in your loft which you do not have a firearms licence for.

DJ:  No

Bearing in mind the above is probably just the tip of the ice-berg. 

This woman was not averse to accompanying Rolfe on drug deals and procuring a machine gun.  It now appears she was committing council housing fraud.  Was she punished in any way for any of this?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #397 on: February 28, 2019, 09:45:36 AM »
Quite possibly, they are similar aren'y they.. If it's the Rebecca Carr testimony, this appears to be a good sighting as she believes from police photographs that Tate was inside as they were parked at traffic lights. The better sighting was Andrew Charles Reynolds at 18:05 in Basildon..  However, Rebecca Carr states she believed the white car (Sierra) was a C registered plate, the VW Corrado was a J registered plate.

Well I was just thinking if the witnesses gave general descriptions rather than specifics eg white coupe, 2 doors with body kits etc.  But with Ford at Dagenham you would think most might be able to differentiate between a VW Corrado and a Ford Sierra Cosworth!
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #398 on: February 28, 2019, 09:50:39 AM »
Fake number plates?

VW Corrado...



Sierra Cosworth...



Much prefer the Corrado to its replacement the Scirroco.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #399 on: February 28, 2019, 10:05:11 AM »
I totally agree, some of it sounds very implausible to say the least.. between the day of the murders and the first statements there must have been a lot of behind the scenes discussions going on..

I don't know whether all of the statements have made available but there appears to be nothing from Anna Whitehead or other key individuals..

You asked about Clare.. one of Pat Tate's acquaintances...  below

06/02/96 - STATEMENT of SUSAN ANNE CAREY

NAME: SUSAN ANNE CAREY
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 52 05031943

Who states:- This statement consisting of 003 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 060296
S A CAREY (SIGNED)

I live with my family in the Eastwood area. I have four daughters the youngest of whom is Claire. Claire is twenty three years old. On and off Claire lives at home but spends time with her boyfiend. At present Claire works at TGI Fridays at the Lakeside complex in West Thurrock, however she had previously worked in Southend at a restaurant called 'Sellars' and I believe that a Kim WEBBER was the owner.

It was through Claire's association with the restaurant and Kim that she became acquainted with Pat TATE. My first impression of Pat was only from what Claire told me and I first became aware of Claire actually seeing Pat was when he was at hospital having been shot in the arm.

I had only ever met Pat once when he came to the door at my house calling for Claire. I was aware that Pat also served some time is prison and that he would keep in contact with Claire when he got out. It was only a couple of months ago when he must have been released because I started getting phone calls from Pat.

He would be very polite and ask for Claire and more often than not she wasn't in and he would apologise for troubling me and ask that I leave a message for Claire to contact him. I approached Claire and one stage and voiced my concern because I didn't really want my daughter getting involved with him because of his past.

Claire assured me that she wasn't. The last time I had any contact with Pat TATE was on Wednesday 061295 when he phoned me at home around 1800 hours.

He had rung several times earlier in the day asking for Claire and on the final occasion Claire still wasn't back from work and Pat said that he had to go out for about half an hour but asked that I tell Claire to hang on as he would be back. Pat didn't sound concerned or worried on the phone.

The only other contact I had was later that evening from Claire herself sating she had been waiting outside Pat's for ages and he hadn't turned up so she was going to go back to her boyfriends'. When Pat last rang he sounded like he was at home because he said 'please tell her to hold on'.

He explained that he was thinking about leaving a note in his door for Claire but didn't know whether he would bother now. Whenever Pat rang up he would always introduce himself as Pat TATE and I had no doubts that it was not him.

S A CAREY SIGNED
STATEMENT TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 060296
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:

Maybe the emphasis is too much on the 'Essex Boys' and the roles played by the 'Essex Girls' has been overlooked. 

Anyway according to the above Claire met Tate through working at Sellars restaurant in Southend owned by Kim Webber.  Is this the Kim Webber?

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5542525.leigh-ex-soccer-chiefs-jail-term-cut/

How many second hand car dealers do they need/want/have in Essex?   ?>)()<

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/961149.cop-gave-info-to-murder-suspect/

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/1076957.former-officer-denies-being-corrupt/


Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #400 on: February 28, 2019, 10:10:47 AM »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #401 on: February 28, 2019, 11:53:42 AM »
14/03/96 - Statement of DONNA LYNN JAGGERS

NAME: DONNA LYNN JAGGERS
AGE / DATE OF BIRTH: 26 27101969

Who states:- This statement consisting of 013 pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

DATED: 140396
D L JAGGERS (SIGNED)

I am the common law wife of Craig ROLFE whom had been my partner for seven years. I have been asked about Craig's association with Tony TUCKER and Pat TATE and their involvement with drug dealing, and the circumstances surround their deaths. Craig had been involved with TUCKER for approximately three or four years and was registered as a Director of TUCKER's security company running Nightclub doors.

This was in name only and I know that Craig never had any involvement in running the business. His association started as a result of TUCKER buying drugs from Craig. They then became more involved as time went on and they started doing drugs deals together. In early 000095 Craig was not being very active and was not completing many deals therefore he did not have much money.

He was being promised that a large deal was due which would provide him with plenty of money, in the mean time we were scraping to get by. I later learnt from Craig that a person called Mickey 'The Pilot' who I now know to be called Michael STEELE was a friend of Pat TATE who in turn was a friend of Tony TUCKER. STEELE I understood to be a pilot who brought drugs into the country, and I understood that he had been in prison for it.

Craig told me that STEELE was a ruthless person who really didn't think very much of other people. In early 000095 I was aware that TATE was in prison and I recall TUCKER and one other person, whose details I do not know, running around getting TATE's money together for him to finance the deal. I am fairly sure that John MCCARTHY had some of TATE's money.

Craig told me that this was happening and stated that STEELE was happy to continue bringing it in until they were all millionaires. I can not say when the deal took place but I can say that at that time I witnessed the change over of the drugs. Mickey STEEL drove to Longwood Stables in Dry Street, Basildon, Essex, where TUCKER had two horses. I arrived there with Craig and met Tony who was with his horses.

We waited for Mick to arrive which he did in a blue Toyota RAV4. Although I had remained in our car and I had my back to where Mickey STEELE had parked, I was able to look over my left shoulder towards the rear of his car. I saw STEELE take a large dark coloured kit bag, measuring approximately three feet in length by about twelve to fifteen inches in diameter, from the boot of his car.

By the way he was holding the bag it appeared to be very heavy. He handed it to TUCKER who put it in the boot of our car which was a Vauxhall Senator. Craig then got back into our car and drove to another location. Craig took the holdall out of the boot and took it to a "safe house' where all the drugs were stored. I went into the house with Craig who then placed the bag on the table.

He opened the bag up and I saw that it contained bars of brown cannabis resin which were all individually wrapped in a clear film. I was present when he checked that it was good quality by burning and smelling a sample and then counting the bars. I am unable to say how many bars there were. I have only met Mickey STEELE on a couple of occasions and that was only in passing.

I have not actually spoken to STEELE. On each occasion when I have seen him he has always made me very aware that he does not want me to look at him. The last deal which STEELE carried out for them was approximately two weeks after TATE was released from prison which was at the end of 001095. Craig told me that Mickey STEELE was arranging to bring in sixty thousand pounds worth of cannabis from abroad.

Craig put in seven thousand pounds, TUCKER put in twenty thousand pounds and TATE and a fourth person called Barry DOORMAN were putting in the remainder of the money. A couple of days before the cannabis was collected I went with Craig to TUCKER's home address in Fobbing, Essex, to hand him the seven thousand pounds which was in a Tesco's carrier bag. The money was handed to TUCKER who was in turn going to hand it to STEELE.

We were only at the house for about five minutes and as Craig and I were leaving and walking down the driveway towards our car, I saw Mickey STEELE walking up the driveway towards the house. He passed by us and nodded to Craig. He did not speak or acknowledge myself. STEELE had come from a white car which I believe he had been driving. I can not say what the car was but it was clean and had the appearance of an average family saloon.

There was a second male in the car who had short dark hair and appeared to be a little bit younger than STEELE. He appeared clean shaven but I did not take any further notice. We got into our vehicle which I believe was a Vauxhall Frontera which had been loaned to TATE by Barry DOORMAN, and left. A couple of days later Craig told me that STEELE had been arrested by Customs Officers whilst he was taking his boat from the water.

This was following him dropping the cannabis off at a safe point on the coastline about three miles away. That same day TATE was arrested during the early afternoon having crashed TUCKER's Porsche car in Southend. I was at work and would have finished at 1500 hours that day. Craig picked me up from work and told me what had happened to STEELE. About 1600 hours TUCKER phoned Craig on his mobile phone and told him about his car and what TATE had done to it.

About 1800 hours that day Craig and I drove to Southend Police Station to collect TATE. Once in the vehicle I became aware that TATE already knew about STEELE being arrested. He then used Craig's mobile phone to ring Jackie STEELE. He asked her if everything was 'safe'. I took it that it was as a result of TATE's manner and subsequently what he said to Craig. He said that it was all 'safe', I took this to mean that the drugs had not been found.

On this occasion I did hot know where the meeting between STEELE and the others was to take place but after a couple of days Craig brought his share of the cannabis round to our house in Chafford Hundred. Because the cannabis had already been sold on, the same day Craig and I took it up to the Golders Green area of North London where Craig handed it onto a coloured male called Gary.

No money was exchanged because the cannabis was what's known as 'laid on' Gary for him to sell and then pay Craig. The agreed amount per kilo worked out to be approximately ten thousand pounds for the lot. Already the others had placed their own share with other dealers but very quickly they started receiving phone calls telling them that the cannabis was very poor quality.

I learnt through Craig that TATE and TUCKER were very agitated because STEELE during this time was trying to push the price that he wanted up. In affect this was eating into their personal profit from the deal. They contacted STEELE and told him that they wanted their money back because the cannabis was rubbish. STEELE didn't want to take it back. TATE and TUCKER then started putting real pressure on STEELE to recover the money.

By pressure I mean through intimidation. I can not say exactly what they did, because I do not know, but I recall hearing conversations they had with STEELE on the phone where they were renting and raving at one another and pacing up and down. I understand that STEELE finally agreed to return the cannabis and get their money back for them. TATE in a fit of temper about the whole affair smashed each slab before it was returned.

STEELE had told them that a parcel the same size had been picked up by mistake and that's how the problem had come about. I am not certain but I think that on this occasion STEELE had to collect the cannabis from TUCKER's home address in order to return it. STEELE arranged to hand the money back to them on the continent. He was going to return the goods to his suppliers and then take the money to a pre-arranged location where he was to meet Craig, TUCKER and TATE.

The day they were going to meet coincided with Tony TUCKER's birthday which was the 171100. His girlfriend, Anna, had pre-booked a surprise night in a London hotel prior the trip to collect the money being made. Therefore Tony was not going to go. They wanted a group of people to go over in order that the money could be divided up to bring it back into this country.

Craig asked me to go but I refused because I was not happy about getting involved and didn't want to go. The eventual party consisted of Barry DOORMAN and his wife who went in their own car. Pat TATE and Craig with three girls. Donna GARWOOD, Liz FLETCHER and Gaynor HAYZER. They travelled in the Range Rover and left via Harwich. Craig did tell me where they went to but I can not remember the location or where they stayed.

I know that they stayed overnight in a hotel and were met by Mickey STEELE. I was told that he met TATE and they went into a separate room. They returned the next day with the money. Whilst all this was going on I was told that STEELE was promising TATE that he had a 'big job' lined up for him. Craig told me that STEELE had approached TATE and asked him to nick someone elses gear from them.

I understood that STEELE had been asked by a London based drugs firm to import 30 kilos of Charlie (Cocaine) and I believe that he was going to bring it in by plane from Holland. He had told Pat TATE that he was going to be given fifty thousand pounds as an up front payment to take to Holland and he was going to bring the Charlie back in company with a member of the London firm.

The idea was that Pat TATE and Tony TUCKER would rob the firm of the Charlie when it arrived over here. STEELE had stated that he wanted to share it between them and had told the firm that he was going to land near to Clacton. Craig told me that STEELE was planning to actually land in South Essex but I never knew exactly where this was likely to be. Craig, Tony and Pat had previously obtained a machine gun from a man called Mad Mick BOWMAN and the details of this are subject of a previous statement.

TATE and TUCKER were going to use the gun on the man from the firm in order to take the Charlie. I knew that they had made sure the gun worked but I did not know how far they were planning to go when they robbed the firm. STEELE was going to land the plane and TATE and TUCKER were then going to take the complete load. It was going to be split, eventually, ten kilos each, and was going to be taken to John MCCARTHY.

Craig told me that MCCARTHY was going to pay them nearly one million pounds for the load which was for TATE or TUCKER to divide. Not long after Craig had told me about this he told me that TATE and TUCKER had decided that he was going to drive the load away once it had been taken and go to MCCARTHY'S with it. They had told Craig that they intended to rip STEELE off by cutting 3 kilos of the Cocaine into ten kilos of impure.

This would have resulted in TATE and TUCKER having twenty seven kilos between them. The remaining three kilos was going to be taken to Mick BOWMAN and he was going to cut it for them. I do not know what the arrangements were to get the three kilos to BOWMAN or to get the ten kilos of impure back to STEELE. By this time I was getting very worried by Craig's involvement and told him that I didn't want him have any part in it.

He told me that STEELE didn't know that he was going to be driving and he convinced me that he wasn't as heavily involved as the other two in what was going to happen. He also talked about the money which was likely to be coming their way and how that would enable us to go ahead with whatever plans we wanted. I realised that I wasn't going to be able to talk him out of it and, albeit I really didn't want him to go through with it, I gave up in the end.

I believed that by this he was in too deep. Craig told me that the money had been paid to Mickey STEELE who had taken it to Holland. The weather had changed and there was now snow on the ground. Craig told me this was causing them delay and they were waiting for it to clear. On the day of the murder I was working as normal and was due to finish at 1500 hours. That evening Tony TUCKER and his girlfriend Anna, Craig and I and Pat TATE and a girlfriend named Clare, were all going to the Global Net Cafe restaurant in Romford.

We were going out because they believed they were coming into money and they were going to have a pre-celebration. Graig phoned me at work in the afternoon and told me that Mickey STEELE had contacted Pat TATE and said that he wanted to meet with TATE and TUCKER to go and look at somewhere they could land a light aircraft. Craig mentioned to me that they had been to or were going to, I can't remember which, to the T.G.I. Fridays restaurant at Lakeside. I later found out that this had been TATE, TUCKER, and Craig and a person railed Peter CUTHBERT.

I do not know why they met or what was discussed. I left work at 1500 hours that day and went home. The meal at Romford was booked for 2000 hours. I was busy wrapping Christmas presents when Craig returned home with our daughter Georgie. We were at home together for about an hour and a half. Craig told me that I was to be ready for 1900 hours to go out. He was going with the others to look at the air strip and then would come to collect me.

Craig wanted me to have something new to wear for the evening and took me to the Lakeside shopping centre at 1745 hours. He was driving the Range Rover and left me to go and pick Tony TUCKER up. Craig told me that he was going because he didn't want Tony to be in a position to say that he hadn't had any part in the arranging. I also understood that Craig was going to collect Tony TUCKER from his home and they were going to meet TATE and STEELE later. I did not have contact from Craig, TATE or TUCKER after this point.

D L JAGGERS SIGNED STATEMENT
TAKEN PLACE:
TIME:
DATE: 140396
WITNESS TO SIGNATURE:
OFFICERS SIGNATURE:

From the first time of reading the above much of the content simply does not ring true.  Especially DJ's claim of Rolfe dropping her off at Lakeside ostensibly to purchase something new for the Romford jolly up.  DJ claims she was dropped off at circa 5.45pm.  According to Crimewatch Rolfe's Range Rover was seen leaving Lakeside at 6pm.  Rolfe had told her to be ready for 7pm although it is not clear where she was to be picked up from ie Lakeside shopping centre or their nearby home in Chafford Hundred. 

The murdered trio along with Peter Cuthbert had met in TGI Friday's at Lakeside earlier.  TGI Friday's being Claire's place of work. 

Is it possible DJ's visit to Lakeside wasn't to buy something new but to meet up with Claire?

According to Claire's mother Tate had had been trying to get in touch with Claire who was at work at TGI Friday's where Tate had been earlier in the day so would surely know this?

I'm not suggesting these women were career criminals but it seems to me they were either knowingly or unknowingly facilitators of crime. 

Going back to Andrew Reynolds WS he states that Rolfe had been phoning the garage about replacement tyres for Tucker's girlfriend's car.   Around 29/30 Nov Rolfe and Tucker visited the garage to have the replacement tyres fitted. The pair waited whilst this was carried out.  Why is Rolfe getting involved?  Why did they both need to visit? However on 4th Dec the Vitara was returned as it had lost reverse.  On 6th Dec Tate also visited the garage with his girlfiend Lizzie Fletcher to have repairs carried out on her car  8)-)))  Tate arrived in his Black Mercedes and Lizzie in her VW Polo.  Tate called Tucker from the garage and it was agreed he would take the Vitara and Lizzie took Tate's Mercedes.   It seems the Polo was still at the garage when it closed at 6pm but was gone when Andrew Reynolds drove past later.  Who took the Polo. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg512951#msg512951

The murdered trio were all known to the police and were unlikely to drive around in cars containing anything illegal eg drugs and firearms for obvious reasons and this is imo where the various women came in.

DJ also refers to a safe house.  Was the safe house one of the council houses registered in her name? 

In Tucker's voice mail messages Anna refers to being at the flat she used to be at.  This was a flat with a landline registered to Donna Garwood who it appears was Tucker's affair.  The landline appeared in the tel schedules with multiple calls made to it and from it by Tate and Tucker including a number of 'alarm' calls. 
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 11:56:23 AM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #402 on: February 28, 2019, 01:25:55 PM »
A poster on another forum had this to say about the case:

Whomes denied having ever been in Rettendon when he was asked if he murdered Tate,Tucker and Rolfe.

The mobile evidence does not exonerate them at all. 

The expert concluded

"2.2.   Cell site analysis is not an exact process. However, although I could not disprove the Prosecution's view of events, the call detail records for Jack Whomes' 'phone and for Michael Steel's 'phone were, in my opinion more consistent with the explanations put forward by the Defendants than with the claims made by the Prosecution.
"
The explanations put forward by the defendants are Steele saying "No comment" and Whomes saying "I have never been to Rettendon". Clearly the expert is under the impression that the defence theory is actually Whomes explanation for his wearabouts that night. It is not.

He goes on to say

"2.3.   I was aware that it might be argued in Court that the measurements I had carried out, and the conclusions I had drawn had certain weaknesses.

2.3.1.   The Vodafone service might have changed between the time of the murder and my tests, to the extent that my tests were invalid."


My response

Whomes lived and worked in Suffolk why would he necessarily be familiar with the place names of small villages in Essex?  He claims he came down the A12 and A130 and then turned off into the Wheatsheaf pub.   As I said previously if he was in the area on drug related business he was hardly likely to fess up to being in the area.  No one knows what conversations took place between the police and Whomes and at what stage it was put to him he was in the frame for murder. 

Most will agree the conviction is underpinned by Nicholls' testimony who testified that when he received the 2 calls from Whomes at 18.59 he was in Meadow Lane, Rettendon.  Nicholls mobile phone was subscribed to Orange who had a cell site in Rettendon and yet the 2 calls were routed through the Basildon cell site:

1.8. I was less inclined to accept the assertion by Darren Nicholls that the service provided to his Orange 'phone in the car park of the Wheatsheaf public house was very poor. The Orange cell site at Rettendon is in line of sight and less than 2 kilometres distant from the Wheatsheaf public house. I would have expected a good service from the Orange network at that location. Furthermore Darren Nicholls claimed to have been in Meadow Road, Rettendon when he received the calls from Jack Whomes at 18:59. These calls were served by the Orange cell site at Basildon, which is not the closest site and not the site which I would have expected to provide best service to an Orange 'phone in Meadow Road.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #403 on: February 28, 2019, 02:02:53 PM »
Here's another post from the above:

Why have you made this assumption? Its totally false. The call from Sarah Sanders to Pat Tate at 18:44 came through the Wickford cell tower. The Wickford cell tower is even closer to the scene of crime than the Hockley cell tower.

Here is the relevant part of judges summing up

"The variable factors include a particular position in the car and driving itself increases multiple reflections. Movements may mean you encounter obstructions." Going back to 73, 74, you do not need to, he said the call to Tate at 18.44.03 came through cell site 1404, which was the Wickford cell site.
"

And so, Tate was on the phone in Rettendon at 18.44 til 18:48. Then Whomes was in Rettendon at 18:59 making a four second phone call to Darren Nicolls. That four second call was most probably "come and pick us up". Tate, Tucker and Rolfe never answered their phones again afterwards.  Nicolls knew Sarah had phoned Patrick because he overheard Steele telling Jack about it.


My response

There's no evidence Tate was in Rettendon at 18.44 when he received the call from Sarah Saunders.  All that can be said is that he received a mobile tel call at 18.44 via the Wickford cell site. 

According to the above it appears Tate's call was routed through the Wickford cell site.  If this is correct we have the following:

18.44 Tate receives a call on his mobile via the Wickford cell site

18.59 Whomes makes 2 calls to Nicholls.  1 via the Ingatestone cell site and the other through the Hockley cell site

18.59 Nicholls receives 2 calls from Whomes both via the Basildon cell site

The soc is Workhouse Lane, Rettendon so I think we can safely say the above does not provide accurate enough data to reliably pinpoint movements around these times.

Sarah Saunders was good friends with Steele and his partner of 25 years Jackie Street.  Steele and Tate met in prison and the two women met during prison visits.  Post prison the two couples socialised together with the women both riding horses.  Steele and Jackie Street assisted Sarah Saunders move house.  It would be strange if  Sarah Saunders didn't discuss her last tel call conversation with Tate, the father of her child, with Steele and Jackie Street.  And of course it is extremely likely Steele reiterated this to Nicholls.  Nicholls, Steele, Tate and Whomes all met in prison and thereafter socialised and committed crime together.  Whether or not Steele and Whomes committed the murders it would be pretty damn weird if Steele, Whomes and Nicholls didn't discuss the murders again given their relationships with the murdered trio.  Especially as the trio continued importing cannabis with Tate's brother Russell Tate:

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5539245.man-dealt-with-his-brothers-killer-court-told/


Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #404 on: February 28, 2019, 07:14:19 PM »
A poster on another forum had this to say about the case:

Whomes denied having ever been in Rettendon when he was asked if he murdered Tate,Tucker and Rolfe.

The mobile evidence does not exonerate them at all. 

The expert concluded

"2.2.   Cell site analysis is not an exact process. However, although I could not disprove the Prosecution's view of events, the call detail records for Jack Whomes' 'phone and for Michael Steel's 'phone were, in my opinion more consistent with the explanations put forward by the Defendants than with the claims made by the Prosecution.
"
The explanations put forward by the defendants are Steele saying "No comment" and Whomes saying "I have never been to Rettendon". Clearly the expert is under the impression that the defence theory is actually Whomes explanation for his wearabouts that night. It is not.

He goes on to say

"2.3.   I was aware that it might be argued in Court that the measurements I had carried out, and the conclusions I had drawn had certain weaknesses.

2.3.1.   The Vodafone service might have changed between the time of the murder and my tests, to the extent that my tests were invalid."


My response

Whomes lived and worked in Suffolk why would he necessarily be familiar with the place names of small villages in Essex?  He claims he came down the A12 and A130 and then turned off into the Wheatsheaf pub.   As I said previously if he was in the area on drug related business he was hardly likely to fess up to being in the area.  No one knows what conversations took place between the police and Whomes and at what stage it was put to him he was in the frame for murder. 

Most will agree the conviction is underpinned by Nicholls' testimony who testified that when he received the 2 calls from Whomes at 18.59 he was in Meadow Lane, Rettendon.  Nicholls mobile phone was subscribed to Orange who had a cell site in Rettendon and yet the 2 calls were routed through the Basildon cell site:

1.8. I was less inclined to accept the assertion by Darren Nicholls that the service provided to his Orange 'phone in the car park of the Wheatsheaf public house was very poor. The Orange cell site at Rettendon is in line of sight and less than 2 kilometres distant from the Wheatsheaf public house. I would have expected a good service from the Orange network at that location. Furthermore Darren Nicholls claimed to have been in Meadow Road, Rettendon when he received the calls from Jack Whomes at 18:59. These calls were served by the Orange cell site at Basildon, which is not the closest site and not the site which I would have expected to provide best service to an Orange 'phone in Meadow Road.

The poster on the other forum has responded by uploading the following map identifying the soc and the mobile cell sites for Wickford and Hockley.   Perhaps the poster would like to create a further map adding in the cell site Nicholls calls were routed through when he claims to have been in Meadow Street at Rettendon.  These calls were received through the Basildon cell site which is not even on the poster's map as it so far away!

I repeat:

18.44 Tate receives a call on his mobile via the Wickford cell site

18.59 Whomes made 2 calls to Nicholls routed through the Ingatestone and Hockely cell sites

18.59 Nicholls received 2 calls from Whomes routed through the Basildon cell site

Perhaps the poster would like to produce another map identifying the soc along with the 4 cell sites above so we can all be clear that they in no way shape or form are capable of pinpointing the whereabouts of the above at said times.  All that can be said is they were in areas covering many miles.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 07:19:52 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?