Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?

[Carana]

The most remarkable backtrack ever for me was when Gerry McCann changed his statement as to how he gained access to the apartment on the night Maddie disappeared.  Initially he told the PJ investigators that he walked the long way round and entered via the car park and the front door of the appartment.  This later changed to he used the steps up from the street to the back patio and entered via the patio doors.

I can understand a minor lapse of memory but this was a substantial failure to remember important details.  When you look at this in the context of Maddie's unexplained disappearance from the apartment then several scenarios become very apparent.

We've had this conversation before on another thread.

What I find most likely is that the cop asked Gerry to describe the flat (via the interpreter) and scribbled a few notes down, including the fact that one door required a key to enter. That doesn't appear in the report, but if he didn't, he should have done. Enter confusion as to which door is the back one versus the front one, and the cop assumes that it's the one that needed a key, which is what he types up.

Gerry's preoccupation was to get the ball rolling as fast as possible to find her, not to check if every detail had been accurately recorded.

As far as anyone knows, he didn't have a translated version to read through. It's not even clear if the "interpreter" read out the entire Portuguese statement to him, as opposed to reflecting back to him what the cop summarised what he thought he'd understood as he went along.

E.g.,

"So at around 9 pm, you went into the apartment via the (confusion over which side is back / front) door and went to check on your children?"

"Yes."

Cop checks his scribbled notes, mistakenly adds the detail of the key, and job done.

If the statement had been verbatim, it would be clear if there had been confusion about which door was the back or front, or not, and - if so - who got confused and how.

Personally, I don't think any of them were very awake that morning. The statement says that Gerry went to the "club" and entered the "room" via the door with the key. Which "club"? Which "room"? Gerry wouldn't have said that he went to the "club", as opposed to apartment / flat, surely?

[Brietta]

from what ive read the drains in the town are mega complicated and a nightmare to inspect properly

How does one gain access via the drain covers?

It is my understanding a special tool is required to unlock them.

[Carana]

Someone will probably mention translation errors or sumink, but that anomaly is most definitely there....


'The contradictions in Gerald McCann's statement might lead us to suspect a homicide. This is a lead that should be investigated.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250084/How-letter-UK-police-turned-spotlight-Kate-Gerry-McCann.html


'There is a report from Control Risks, the first private detective agency which was brought to the case [by the McCanns] in the very first days, where they state, after speaking with Gerald McCann and other witnesses in that group [Tapas 9], that the key that Mr. Gerald McCann alleges to have used had in fact been left in the kitchen, in the kitchen’s counter. Right away, the lies started.' (Gonçalo Amaral)

....................


Did the McCanns lawyers dispute this at the trial?

Would Rainbow have been aware that Gerry's statement wasn't verbatim and that Gerry wouldn't have been able to read through a written statement in English? Or did some cop just tell him that there was a discrepancy between the two statements?

[insider]

How does one gain access via the drain covers?

It is my understanding a special tool is required to unlock them.

if I recall there were works going on near block 5 at the time she disappeared.

[Angelo222]

We've had this conversation before on another thread.

What I find most likely is that the cop asked Gerry to describe the flat (via the interpreter) and scribbled a few notes down, including the fact that one door required a key to enter. That doesn't appear in the report, but if he didn't, he should have done. Enter confusion as to which door is the back one versus the front one, and the cop assumes that it's the one that needed a key, which is what he types up.

Gerry's preoccupation was to get the ball rolling as fast as possible to find her, not to check if every detail had been accurately recorded.

As far as anyone knows, he didn't have a translated version to read through. It's not even clear if the "interpreter" read out the entire Portuguese statement to him, as opposed to reflecting back to him what the cop summarised what he thought he'd understood as he went along.

E.g.,

"So at around 9 pm, you went into the apartment via the (confusion over which side is back / front) door and went to check on your children?"

"Yes."

Cop checks his scribbled notes, mistakenly adds the detail of the key, and job done.

If the statement had been verbatim, it would be clear if there had been confusion about which door was the back or front, or not, and - if so - who got confused and how.

Personally, I don't think any of them were very awake that morning. The statement says that Gerry went to the "club" and entered the "room" via the door with the key. Which "club"? Which "room"? Gerry wouldn't have said that he went to the "club", as opposed to apartment / flat, surely?

You don't need to make further excuses Carana, Gerry admitted his mistake in the documentary which was filmed in the apartment.  The fact that he couldn't even remember which door he used that night is highly significant imo.

[Carana]

Numerous complaints had been made about the drainage system.

There are questions - from the mayor who says he was not told about the litany of compaints about the very drain she was found in...

http://tvnz.co.nz/close-up/heartbreaking-loss-aisling-symes-3070813?page=7&pagesize=5


Waitakere City Council in the gun
October 14th, 2009 at 9:42 am by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

    As the family of Aisling Symes prepare for her funeral, Waitakere City Council could face prosecution over her death. …

    Neighbours of the home from which Aisling wandered away said yesterday that they had repeatedly warned the council about problems with the drain and a manhole cover that Aisling probably crawled through, saying it blew off under the increased water pressure when it rained.

    Waitakere Mayor Bob Harvey began an inquiry yesterday into those allegations, while a spokesman confirmed that the council had received four complaints about the manhole cover since 2004, the latest on September 11 and September 25.

It is difficult to explain why nothing was done, despite four formal complaints. This is bread and butter stuff for Councils.

    Tim Rainey, a lawyer who specialises in construction negligence, said it was “very much a live possibility” that the council could be prosecuted under the Health and Safety in Employment Act.

    “If they were aware of a risk which could harm somebody then they would have been obliged to take all practicable steps to ensure that risk was either eliminated or minimised.”

The only problem with a prosecution is that innocent ratepayers will have to pay any fine, not those responsible.

    Council staff visited the Longburn Rd property and inspected the drain on September 16 – five days after the first complaint.

    They found it was blocked by tree roots, and were discussing with the property owner who would pay to clear the blockage.

    “We were in the process of deciding how best to remove those when the tragedy occurred,” council spokesman Wally Thomas said.

    “There was a matter of days between us receiving the last complaint and acting on it, and before we could clear the problem this tragedy occurred.”

However the complaints go back to before September the 11th it seems. What is the time gap between the first complaint, not the last complaint?
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/10/waitakere_city_council_in_the_gun.html

[Brietta]

if I recall there were works going on near block 5 at the time she disappeared.

It is my understanding that the roadworks were checked by the PJ ... unless you know different.

I doubt very much if the drains and sewers were left uncovered as part of this ... I am sure Portugal is as concerned about health and safety as the rest of Europe in such matters ... although I believe there is one witness statement to the effect that a drain cover was partly off on the third.

[Carana]

if I recall there were works going on near block 5 at the time she disappeared.

Yes. Rex Morgan said that he'd seen an open manhole near 5A that night. What's not clear is what kind of manhole it was - if it was just one to lay cables, then a child couldn't have disappeared; if it was a storm drain, then it might be feasible.

I would further like to say that in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine, I saw a manhole with a cover removed.

This manhole is situated on a junction of a road that runs parallel to the supermarket near to the Tapas Bar and the McCanns apartment. The cover along with the surround that been removed and placed to the side of the road.

The road is lit by street lighting but I believe you would not have seen the hole and anyone could have fallen in.

I returned the next day and noticed that the cover had been replaced. I am concerned that she may have fallen down the manhole and was not seen.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/REX-MORGAN.htm

[Wonderfulspam]

Would Rainbow have been aware that Gerry's statement wasn't verbatim and that Gerry wouldn't have been able to read through a written statement in English? Or did some cop just tell him that there was a discrepancy between the two statements?

So, Amarals claim about the content of the control risks report wasn't disputed in court then.

That's because it's true.

[Carana]

You don't need to make further excuses Carana, Gerry admitted his mistake in the documentary which was filmed in the apartment.  The fact that he couldn't even remember which door he used that night is highly significant imo.

I have no reason to make excuses. It's just that I've made a report to the police before in a country in which I didn't understand the language and the officer didn't understand mine. I grabbed someone to help translate. In my case, there were numerous inaccurate details, but the two important ones were there and that was all I really needed. My situation was by no means as dramatic, but it was urgent and I had no time (nor real necessity) to ask a grumpy officer to retype it all.

[Wonderfulspam]

I have no reason to make excuses. It's just that I've made a report to the police before in a country in which I didn't understand the language and the officer didn't understand mine. I grabbed someone to help translate. In my case, there were numerous inaccurate details, but the two important ones were there and that was all I really needed. My situation was by no means as dramatic, but it was urgent and I had no time (nor real necessity) to ask a grumpy officer to retype it all.

Well, I made a report to the police in a foreign country before, & there were no problems at all.

[Mr Moderator]

I have no reason to make excuses. It's just that I've made a report to the police before in a country in which I didn't understand the language and the officer didn't understand mine. I grabbed someone to help translate. In my case, there were numerous inaccurate details, but the two important ones were there and that was all I really needed. My situation was by no means as dramatic, but it was urgent and I had no time (nor real necessity) to ask a grumpy officer to retype it all.

To clarify, it was not a translation error or a misunderstanding between the witness and the police.  Mr McCann admitted to giving the wrong information in his first statement.

[Carana]

So, Amarals claim about the content of the control risks report wasn't disputed in court then.

That's because it's true.

Was the Control Risks report ever raised in court by Amaral's team?

Recopying your cite:
'There is a report from Control Risks, the first private detective agency which was brought to the case [by the McCanns] in the very first days, where they state, after speaking with Gerald McCann and other witnesses in that group [Tapas 9], that the key that Mr. Gerald McCann alleges to have used had in fact been left in the kitchen, in the kitchen’s counter. Right away, the lies started.' (Gonçalo Amaral)

That sounds like Amaral's selective understanding again.

If there had been a misunderstanding over which door was meant and Gerry had explained it to Control Risks, saying that it was clearly a mistake as the key was left in the kitchen, so how could have used it to enter, and why would he gone the long way around when the verandah had been left open for checks, and he needed a pee, anyway?

[Carana]

Well, I made a report to the police in a foreign country before, & there were no problems at all.

Lucky you. ;)

[Carana]

To clarify, it was not a translation error or a misunderstanding between the witness and the police.  Mr McCann admitted to giving the wrong information in his first statement.

Is there a cite somewhere to see what he actually said?