Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?

[Alice Purjorick]

I'm 4 pages behind, so this may have been covered.

The reason I am dubious of natural causes is that if it was, then either a two-year old pulled most of the cover shut after she went in, or another party must have nearly replaced it later.

I don't know how the police were so insistent on the pipe, unless someone had provided evidence along the lines of - well I found this cover open and it was dangerous so I (part) replaced it.

Kindly come out to Luz and suggest to the populace that the whole drainage laid in 2007 needs to be dug up again.  Or, given that the startled robber theory is bandied about, and any manhole would do, the entire town drains need to come up.  Popular here with the public?  I think not.  Popular with the UK taxpayer?  I think not.

Personally, I wish that instead of trying to dig up the mound they had investigated every manhole/drain in Luz.  At least then some progress would have been made.

A final note on this.  I can see nothing to suggest that SY in 2014 deployed the dogs near the manholes.  I assume (ouch) this means that they think the dogs are of no use in this respect.

Barring dogs, and preferring not to take up the digger option, I cannot see that is hard to put a ROV with a camera through more or less the whole system.

CCTV surveying of sewer systems has been common practice in UK for 20 years plus. I cannot imagine it is that different through out Europe.

[Carana]

Blimey this is turning into a municipal engineering thread 
Quick guide.
Telecoms; water; gas ; electricity commonly laid following the natural grade at about 1m minimum cover. There will be draw pits and inspection chambers etc.
Foul starts at property with about 600 cover laid to falls starting with 100 diameter pipe increasing in size as more properties are added. The one where the guys boot is in shot appears to be foul.
Storm laid to falls varying sizes up to 3000 or more. The dry manhole above is either a top of run storm drain or foul not connected upstream. My money would be on storm as it not benched very well and is dry. Both may have long sea outfalls. Then just to bu***r things up some places still use combined systems like Tenerife yuk.
Manhole covers varying classes (weights) according to whether in foot way or highway with HA loadings. Light ones are one man lift out with keys; big ones you will need a dribollic lifter. As a matter of interest most storm drains will have grab chains in the manholes at the downstream end when the diameter is 450 or greater.
I'll send the bill later  *&*%£
Jeez.

Any chance of this in everyday English? What do you mean by "foul"? Sewage?

There must still be some articles online concerning the MariLuz case, RIP, poor tot.

[ShiningInLuz]

It is helpful that you live in the area and can help us out with such things.
It sounds as if the drain covers are similar to our own that can be lifted with several types of tools. I suppose the long handled, tool used by the drain disinfecting men are for ease of use.
Does your system drain directly into the sea via a canal/tunnel or pipes underground and how wide are the pipes.
Sorry for bombarding you with questions, Shininginluz, but I am curious about the plumbing systems.

After reading this thread, I have checked out the drains in Luz and found the following.

I found 4 drain types in Luz, all marked CML, which I assume means Camara Municipal de Lagos.  (Lagos council).

Heriberto posted drain photos marked CRTA, which is something to do with council of technical administration.  I did not see anything marked CRTA when I looked, only CML.  This does not mean that Heriberto is wrong - it simply means I did not see it.  Since Heriberto says the photos are from Luz, I now have to assume up to 5 types in Luz.  (Actually only four types, just with 5 stickers on.)

1 Open up because of a couple of lugs on either side of the cover.  Easy.

2 Heriberto type with lugs somewhat nearer the centre.  5A has both type 1 and type 2 around and both are easy to open up without a sophisticated tool.

3 There's a hinge on one side, and some lugs on the other side.  Still easy to open.  There are some of those near to 5A.

4 Hinge on one side and rather a difficult mechanism on the other side.  I'm sure I could get this open, but now we are not talking easy.  This type is deployed throughout the areas of Luz that were upgraded in 2007.

Hinges?  I believe that Luz was suffering from manhole-cover-for-scrap problem.  Perhaps the hinge and lock was a response.

Changing topics. Does the system drain into the sea?

Rain water does, sewage goes nowhere near the sea.

We have a blue flag beach that has truly pristine water.

Let's say 100% is where you get the nasty readings and you STILL get blue flag.  The upper max that scrapes through.

Luz hits about 1%.  It laughs at supposed blue-flag beaches.  We have cleaner than clean.

"No industrial, waste-water or sewage-related discharges should affect the beach area."

[Anna]

After reading this thread, I have checked out the drains in Luz and found the following.

I found 4 drain types in Luz, all marked CML, which I assume means Camara Municipal de Lagos.  (Lagos council).

Heriberto posted drain photos marked CRTA, which is something to do with council of technical administration.  I did not see anything marked CRTA when I looked, only CML.  This does not mean that Heriberto is wrong - it simply means I did not see it.  Since Heriberto says the photos are from Luz, I now have to assume up to 5 types in Luz.  (Actually only four types, just with 5 stickers on.)

1 Open up because of a couple of lugs on either side of the cover.  Easy.

2 Heriberto type with lugs somewhat nearer the centre.  5A has both type 1 and type 2 around and both are easy to open up without a sophisticated tool.

3 There's a hinge on one side, and some lugs on the other side.  Still easy to open.  There are some of those near to 5A.

4 Hinge on one side and rather a difficult mechanism on the other side.  I'm sure I could get this open, but now we are not talking easy.  This type is deployed throughout the areas of Luz that were upgraded in 2007.

Hinges?  I believe that Luz was suffering from manhole-cover-for-scrap problem.  Perhaps the hinge and lock was a response.

Changing topics. Does the system drain into the sea?

Rain water does, sewage goes nowhere near the sea.

We have a blue flag beach that has truly pristine water.

Let's say 100% is where you get the nasty readings and you STILL get blue flag.  The upper max that scrapes through.

Luz hits about 1%.  It laughs at supposed blue-flag beaches.  We have cleaner than clean.

"No industrial, waste-water or sewage-related discharges should affect the beach area."

Thank you so very much, for that information, it's very kind of you, to check it out.
 they have added hinges, which is a very good idea.
So it is only rain water that would go from these drains and run down that stream like canal and into the sea. I put a photo of a grated hole and near the Paraiso that runs down this gulley to the sea. It would have a large outlet pipe I should think? or go straight into the gulley/stream?









http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/swanray.htm

[Heriberto Janosch]

After reading this thread, I have checked out the drains in Luz and found the following.

I found 4 drain types in Luz, all marked CML, which I assume means Camara Municipal de Lagos.  (Lagos council).

Heriberto posted drain photos marked CRTA, which is something to do with council of technical administration.  I did not see anything marked CRTA when I looked, only CML.  This does not mean that Heriberto is wrong - it simply means I did not see it.  Since Heriberto says the photos are from Luz, I now have to assume up to 5 types in Luz.  (Actually only four types, just with 5 stickers on.)

1 Open up because of a couple of lugs on either side of the cover.  Easy.

2 Heriberto type with lugs somewhat nearer the centre.  5A has both type 1 and type 2 around and both are easy to open up without a sophisticated tool.

3 There's a hinge on one side, and some lugs on the other side.  Still easy to open.  There are some of those near to 5A.

4 Hinge on one side and rather a difficult mechanism on the other side.  I'm sure I could get this open, but now we are not talking easy.  This type is deployed throughout the areas of Luz that were upgraded in 2007.

Hinges?  I believe that Luz was suffering from manhole-cover-for-scrap problem.  Perhaps the hinge and lock was a response.

Changing topics. Does the system drain into the sea?

Rain water does, sewage goes nowhere near the sea.

We have a blue flag beach that has truly pristine water.

Let's say 100% is where you get the nasty readings and you STILL get blue flag.  The upper max that scrapes through.

Luz hits about 1%.  It laughs at supposed blue-flag beaches.  We have cleaner than clean.

"No industrial, waste-water or sewage-related discharges should affect the beach area."

IIRC the pic shows the zone where I met the disinfection men (CRTA type). It was between Rua do Ramalhete and Rua Direita, near the road to Lagos ...

 

[Heriberto Janosch]

My third and fourth manholes pics are of CML type indeed.

I put here the fifth pic.

[Alice Purjorick]

Any chance of this in everyday English? What do you mean by "foul"? Sewage?

There must still be some articles online concerning the MariLuz case, RIP, poor tot.

It is in everyday English but maybe not the everyday English you speak. Which bits do you want simplified?
Precis:
There are four sorts of drainage systems; foul, storm, combined and flooded. Foul is for domestic sewage and maybe some industrial waste; storm is for rainfall run off. Some places have combined systems which are self explanatory (sh*t and storm run off flow down the same pipe, but they are not built in the UK these days).
Storm drains may be pipes or open channels.  Flooded systems are too complicated to explain here and are pretty much restricted to petrochemical complexes anyway. Manhole covers come in different classes some can be lifted by a man some can't.
I thought the accepted wisdom was the child could not let herself out?  so if an "abductor" dropped her down a manhole the cover would need to be off already or the abductor had a set of manhole keys about his person or was towing a dribollic lifter behind him if the cover was a Class A. Mind you I expect the story would be this guy had fabricated his own pocket sonic CDA to the lift the cover to get round the obvious problem. Franky I don't think the idea of vanishing down a manhole has many legs, in the McCann case. I may be wrong of course.

http://manholecoverlifter.co.uk/

[Heriberto Janosch]

Another type ... "CML saneamento" ... I did not see the interior.

[Heriberto Janosch]

More ... all from PdL.

[Heriberto Janosch]

And more from PdL ...

[Heriberto Janosch]

And the last I found in my PC ... Note the tool to open the manhole ... All very hard to open without proper tools, I can assure you ...

[Anna]

Thanks Heri,
In the photo second from the bottom is a grating over a rain/flood drain, I assume.
I am sure the grating is easily lifted. Does that go straight into a canal beneath the road or wide pipes, do you know?

[Heriberto Janosch]

I am sure the grating is easily lifted.

I am not so sure. It seems you need proper tools.

Does that go straight into a canal beneath the road or wide pipes, do you know?

I do not know.

[Heriberto Janosch]

There is a wastewater treatment plant in Ponta da Gaivota. In the general direction the Tanner-Smith abductor was facing. It is difficult to see in Google maps, but I took pics in one of my trips to PdL. Was this plant properly searched?





 

[Brietta]

There is a wastewater treatment plant in Ponta da Gaivota. In the general direction the Tanner-Smith abductor was facing. It is difficult to see in Google maps, but I took pics in one of my trips to PdL. Was this plant properly searched?





 

Scotland Yard searched a water plant last year, I don't know if it was the one in the photograph

**snip
Euclides Monteiro was working at a water and sewage plant in Lagos, four miles from the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz where Madeleine was staying with her parents, Gerry and Kate.

Ex-colleagues of Monteiro, who was born in Cape Verde, have suggested that his duties included visiting other treatment plants in the area.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2651846/Search-Madeleine-McCann-new-site-hard-water-treatment-plant-linked-suspect.html#ixzz3TbAIKJd3