Does publicly "doubting" the McCanns add to the distress of the McCann family?

[Lyall]

Diana wasn't, obviously, but the princes were - and the twins are still - children and quite likely to be distressed by unsubstantiated headlines and social media, although quite probably to a lesser extent during the princes' childhood than that of the twins.

In the cases of Diana's children they lived through a long period when speculation was open and not restricted in the media - particularly in one unapologetic, very determined newspaper (but not restricted to that one paper).

That's not true in the McCann case, not since 2008.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Diana wasn't, obviously, but the princes were - and the twins are still - children and quite likely to be distressed by unsubstantiated headlines and social media, although quite probably to a lesser extent during the princes' childhood than that of the twins.

I disagree with that statement in it's entirety. We do not know the full facts about the young princes lives.  The twins mother were not hounded to death by the press.(levinson was a tester) AND they did not have to be pulled from the comfort of royal privacy protection to grieve, as they had to have a public show to put on. Which to this day disgusts me!

Sadly, the twins will,if not already, grief for their sister.

[Brietta]

Not at members of Diana's family, no.

Charles's family though is another matter entirely.

But the two cases are different and particularly in one very obvious way: Diana wasn't 3 yrs old.

I did not make the comparison ... but Diana did leave two boys behind who were exposed to the coverage of her death complete with conspiracy theories involving their nearest and dearest.

Quite obviously the cases are entirely different ... unless you know of h*te sites and twitter # which were still playing ground hog day eight years after the event.

[Carana]

In the cases of Diana's children they lived through a long period when speculation was open and not restricted in the media - particularly in one unapologetic, very determined newspaper (but not restricted to that one paper).

That's not true in the McCann case, not since 2008.

I agree that the princes may have suffered from relentless media speculation for longer (assuming that they weren't entirely protected from seeing anything in the media) - and, of course, were older than the twins were over the period of the UK anti-McCann media blitz.

However, access to online MSM and SM has changed enormously since then (both in terms of platforms and accessibility), and that affects even relatively young children.

[Carana]

I disagree with that statement in it's entirety. We do not know the full facts about the young princes lives.  The twins mother were not hounded to death by the press.(levinson was a tester) AND they did not have to be pulled from the comfort of royal privacy protection to grieve, as they had to have a public show to put on. Which to this day disgusts me!

Sadly, the twins will,if not already, grief for their sister.

Sorry, I'm not sure I've understood what you're saying.

[Lyall]

I did not make the comparison ... but Diana did leave two boys behind who were exposed to the coverage of her death complete with conspiracy theories involving their nearest and dearest.

Quite obviously the cases are entirely different ... unless you know of h*te sites and twitter # which were still playing ground hog day eight years after the event.

Twitter wasn't around I think in 2005? (1997 + 8) but there were many Diana websites and open discussions on the newspaper forums still in existence back then (though of course 'we' ended all that).

[Lyall]

I agree that the princes may have suffered from relentless media speculation for longer (assuming that they weren't entirely protected from seeing anything in the media) - and, of course, were older than the twins were over the period of the UK anti-McCann media blitz.

However, access to online MSM and SM has changed enormously since then (both in terms of platforms and accessibility), and that affects even relatively young children.

I don't disagree it will have had and continue to have an effect, but that's inevitable in such a unique case.

But I suspect we won't agree the action Sky News (and allies) took was stupid and whatever they hoped to achieve they have in fact achieved the opposite.

I expect that won't the last intervention, but I'd hope the next demonstrates more intelligence than the last.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Sorry, I'm not sure I've understood what you're saying.

The princes had more exposure, were more directly  affected, And were not even allowed to grieve privately with the loss of their mother, and their family were implicated in her death.  The twins were not exposed to that in the time of their sisters missing status. 

[Benice]

It is not libel it is fact.[/color] It isn't a nice terminology, but it would be argued they did abandon their children-even for brief periods.

Maddie was abandoned, left to her own defence- proved

The 'checking' was listening, not physically checking, even though they claimed they were going into the apartment to'check'- The timescales being changed, and forgotten very quickly, suggests the checks were not as regular as is suggested.

It certainly is libellous to state the McCanns are guilty of child neglect as a fact - unless of course you can provide the evidence of them being arrested, charged and found guilty of that crime?   

'Child neglect' is an opinion not a fact, and certainly not one that will be shared by any those parents who have also left their children asleep in their rooms and gone off to have their evening meal when on holiday - knowing they will be checked.    Parents whose existence sceptics always studiously ignore.

Fortunately SY -  being professional experienced policemen -  will not expect the McCanns or anyone else to remember every move they made  - or the exact time they did everything - or how long it took them - down to the last second.   Neither will they expect people to have identical memories of the same events.   In fact if there were no discrepancies between so many people -  that would be suspicious as it would suggest collusion.    But what do they know - they are only the experts. 

[Miss Taken Identity]

It certainly is libellous to state the McCanns are guilty of child neglect as a fact - unless of course you can provide the evidence of them being arrested, charged and found guilty of that crime?   

'Child neglect' is an opinion not a fact, and certainly not one that will be shared by any those parents who have also left their children asleep in their rooms and gone off to have their evening meal when on holiday - knowing they will be checked.    Parents whose existence sceptics always studiously ignore.

Fortunately SY -  being professional experienced policemen -  will not expect the McCanns or anyone else to remember every move they made  - or the exact time they did everything - or how long it took them - down to the last second.   Neither will they expect people to have identical memories of the same events.   In fact if there were no discrepancies between so many people -  that would be suspicious as it would suggest collusion.    But what do they know - they are only the experts.

The parents left Maddie to fend for herself against many dangers in a strange country  DESPITE Maddie letting her parents know they woke up and there was crying and asked where they were. Kate n Gerry ignored this warning. and left those children alone.  Just because they were not charged, found guilty in a court of law neither were they charged and found INNOCENT.

The parents said the made a bad error, now why do you try and white wash it when they have admitted it themselves! 

It was neglect of duty as parents.

 I can tell you this for nothing- if they in their capacity as Doctors ina NHS clinic were to fail their duty of care, which resulted in harm to a patient, they would be struck off and on one instance has happened, that I know of, be charged and jailed for man slaughter.

So spare us the 'they did nothing wrong song' it doesn't sit well with many people I know.

[Brietta]

It certainly is libellous to state the McCanns are guilty of child neglect as a fact - unless of course you can provide the evidence of them being arrested, charged and found guilty of that crime?   

'Child neglect' is an opinion not a fact, and certainly not one that will be shared by any those parents who have also left their children asleep in their rooms and gone off to have their evening meal when on holiday - knowing they will be checked.    Parents whose existence sceptics always studiously ignore.

Fortunately SY -  being professional experienced policemen -  will not expect the McCanns or anyone else to remember every move they made  - or the exact time they did everything - or how long it took them - down to the last second.   Neither will they expect people to have identical memories of the same events.   In fact if there were no discrepancies between so many people -  that would be suspicious as it would suggest collusion.    But what do they know - they are only the experts.

Snipped from a very good article which some who are 'holier than thou' should read and give some thought to ...


 - Last week I was a voyeur of a Facebook thread on the subject of the McCann tragedy; people were slating them for their actions, practically demanding that they be punished.

Well you might as well punish thousands of other parents who, if they were honest, have left their child in situations that were not 100% lock-tight.

Praia da Luz: the perfect family holiday…

You may wonder why I feel so strongly about this.

The year before Madeleine McCann was abducted, I had the pleasure of a family holiday in Praia da Luz.

Our holiday house was directly opposite the pool entrance, about 100 metres from the McCann appartment.

It was a great holiday; pool and bars on the doorstep, gorgeous beach, lovely people, delicious food.

My baby was a noisy sleeper, who often cried in her sleep, but didn’t wake, so we had opted for  a 2 bedroom house. We left the bedroom doors open so we could hear her if she woke, but a small cry could go unnoticed.
The man in the house next door was a heavy snorer, and kept me awake for hours at night.

In the end I wore earplugs.

It was hot, so we left the windows ajar in the baby’s room.

We locked the shutters down, just as the McCanns did, but we left some fresh air circulating for her.It could have been us…..

http://www.actuallymummy.co.uk/2012/05/12/madeleine-mccann-who-are-we-to-judge/

[Benice]

The parents left Maddie to fend for herself against many dangers in a strange country  DESPITE Maddie letting her parents know they woke up and there was crying and asked where they were. Kate n Gerry ignored this warning. and left those children alone.  Just because they were not charged, found guilty in a court of law neither were they charged and found INNOCENT.

The parents said the made a bad error, now why do you try and white wash it when they have admitted it themselves! 

It was neglect of duty as parents.

 I can tell you this for nothing- if they in their capacity as Doctors ina NHS clinic were to fail their duty of care, which resulted in harm to a patient, they would be struck off and on one instance has happened, that I know of, be charged and jailed for man slaughter.

So spare us the 'they did nothing wrong song' it doesn't sit well with many people I know.

None of what you say alters the fact that 'child neglect' is an opinion and not a fact and to claim that it is a fact is libellous.

The McCanns are guilty of human error IMO.    Everyone agrees there is no such thing as a perfect parent, and we all know the sayings 'we all make mistakes' - and ' nobody's perfect'.    The fact that some people have decided the McCanns are not under any circumstances to be allowed to have the same human flaws as the rest of the human race is incomprehensible to me.

People put their children in cars every day - even though they know without a shadow of a doubt that children  are regularly killed in car accidents.  If a child is killed by a drunken driver do we blame the parents for putting their child in a position which they knew could result in their death?    Of course we don't.   No-one expects to be involved in a car accident, just as none of those parents who have decided to leave their children alone and asleep whilst they go to eat expect their children to be abducted.    And irrational as it is - people do think that bad things only ever happen to other people.   How often do we hear  .. 'I never thought this could happen to me''.    That's another human flaw.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - and it's so easy to be wise after the event - not to mention judgemental.

[G-Unit]

Europeans find it hard to understand British attitudes to children. I lived in Germany for some years and they found the way the British behaved towards their children less than OK. The Portugese also had this opinion according to some reports. Kate McCanns mum was said to have been unimpressed. there's a saying 'Two wrongs don't make a right' and neither do lots of wrongs. Something doesn't have to be illegal to be wrong. The fact that it could have happened during the night when the parents were there still doesn't make it right. If there had been a fire would the children have filed out and saved themselves? Would it have been noticed before they were overcome by fumes?
This was not a hotel, it was an apartment in a quiet town with few people around. There are other dangers as well as stranger abduction when leaving small children home alone.

[slartibartfast]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/neglect

[G-Unit]

The law doesn’t say an age when you can leave a child on their own, but it’s an offence to leave a child alone if it places them at risk.
Use your judgement on how mature your child is before you decide to leave them alone.


The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) says:

children under 12 are rarely mature enough to be left alone for a long period of time
children under 16 shouldn’t be left alone overnight
babies, toddlers and very young children should never be left alone

https://www.gov.uk/law-on-leaving-your-child-home-alone

Seems clear enough to me, regardless of how many do it.