Author Topic: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?  (Read 50800 times)

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Offline Anna

Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« on: March 28, 2015, 12:32:50 PM »
Having checked out the timing  I can’t understand, why the police weren’t called earlier?
People knew and called reception and other staff from approx 10.10pm, but no call was made from OC to police until 10.41 pm (2) (23) (29) (33)
2..………… Helder Jorge Samaio Luis
……………Occupation: Receptionist Ocean Club.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post193.html#p193
23 .………  Emma Louise KNIGHT
Occupation: Hotel Manager
Date: 30th April 2008
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9-50.html
29.……… Marina Paulo Raposo Batista Castela
Date: 2007 – 05 – 16
Place of Work: Ocean Club
Occupation: General Manager
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9-130.html
33.………  Jeronimo Tomas Rodrigues Salcedas 
Date: 2007/05/06
Occupation: Barman / Waiter
Place of Work: Ocean Club
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9-140.html

This does not include Matt's apparent visit to reception at 10.20 as statements
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2015, 01:39:27 PM »
Perhaps, as the 'missing child' search was being implemented, time was being allowed to see what this turned up.

The question the other way round is also interesting.  What was the trigger that prompted staff to call the police at 10:41?
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Offline Carana

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2015, 01:45:55 PM »
Perhaps, as the 'missing child' search was being implemented, time was being allowed to see what this turned up.

The question the other way round is also interesting.  What was the trigger that prompted staff to call the police at 10:41?

There may be a 30 minute rule to look for a missing child before involving the police?

Offline jassi

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2015, 01:53:43 PM »
What would happen in the UK in a similar situation? Would police be called immediately or would there be a wait and see period ?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 02:04:10 PM by jassi »
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2015, 02:07:13 PM »
Perhaps, as the 'missing child' search was being implemented, time was being allowed to see what this turned up.

The question the other way round is also interesting.  What was the trigger that prompted staff to call the police at 10:41?

We have evidence of the call at 10.41pm. The evidence may have been provided because people said they called before that time. Perhaps people said they called earlier but they didn't because they thought the child would be found? Helder Luis said he phoned the GNR between 9.30pm and 10pm. Shortly after he phoned again. There is no record of these calls. There could have been some division between Ocean Club employees and Mark Warner employees also - not unusual when things change.
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Offline Anna

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2015, 02:22:31 PM »
Perhaps, as the 'missing child' search was being implemented, time was being allowed to see what this turned up.

The question the other way round is also interesting.  What was the trigger that prompted staff to call the police at 10:41?

I believe that the timing is inaccurate, as the waiter called at 10.15 and since Diane was still in the restaurant that would be about right. He then decided to call police at 10.41pm and Gerry and John Hill arrived so he called again at 10.51.

In Vitor Santos statement Times seem wrong too. John Hill didn't arrive until 22.33 so way out.
?
Vitor Manuel dos Santos With regard to the date of the disappearance on 3rd May 2007, he remembers that at 22.00-22.25he received a phone call from the reception, from receptionist Helder, who told him that John Hill was extremely agitated as a child had disappeared and that the GNR had been contacted but had not arrived yet. He added (the receptionist) that he had phoned the GNR post several times and that he had been told that they would arrive when they could but that they were investigating a theft in Odiaxere. The receptionist asked the witness whether he should contact the PSP, to which the witness replied no as this area belongs to the GNR.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9-10.html


(phoned the police several times???) (what theft?)


Helder Jorge Samaio Luis
Occupation: Receptionist Ocean Club


He knows about the situation that happened at the Ocean Club concerning the disappearance of a little given that on the day in question (03/05/2007) he was on duty and was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant between 09.30 and 22.00 who informed him that the daughter of some guests who were dining there had disappeared.
That he immediately contacted the GNR in Lagos, shortly after this the child’s father and John Hill arrived at the reception and he phoned the GNR again.
He then contacted the head of reception Vítor Santos and informed him of the situation.

He remained at the OC reception until 24.00 when he was replaced by a colleague Mr Eliseu.
He then left the OC and went home.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post193.html#p193
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Carana

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2015, 02:27:58 PM »
We have evidence of the call at 10.41pm. The evidence may have been provided because people said they called before that time. Perhaps people said they called earlier but they didn't because they thought the child would be found? Helder Luis said he phoned the GNR between 9.30pm and 10pm. Shortly after he phoned again. There is no record of these calls. There could have been some division between Ocean Club employees and Mark Warner employees also - not unusual when things change.

Could that be another of these one-hour off statements? if so, between 22:30 and 23:00 would correspond to a call received by the GNR.

Offline Anna

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2015, 02:41:40 PM »
Could that be another of these one-hour off statements? if so, between 22:30 and 23:00 would correspond to a call received by the GNR.

 Alexandre da Luz Oliveira
 He served Russell and shortly thereafter, he was alerted to strange movements in the restaurant perimeters. He refers to the movements of two men from said group—David Payne and Matthew, who appeared to be searching the gardens the areas near the bar. The witness went to the esplanade zone and saw that the table that had previously been occupied by nine adults was now occupied only by the older woman, called Dianne Webster. It was also at this time that he saw that Russell’s food was only half eaten and that the others had all finished their dinner.
David Payne and Matthew were nervously searching the area.
The witness went to them, he does not remember which one, and asked what was happening. One of them responded to the witness in English stating “GIRL IS MISSING”—that a child had gone missing. After a few moments, around 5 or 10 minutes, he heard screaming from the apartment zone and saw a woman on the balcony of 5A. He did not understand what she was saying. As it was night, and given the distance from the Tapas bar to the apartment, he was not able to determine if there was someone else next to the woman on the balcony. At that moment his colleague, Joe, met up with him and asked the witness to call the police, and that a child has gone missing and could not be found. Immediately afterwards, Joe left toward the street. He does not know who gave this information to Joe but the witness (or his colleague who believes the witness did so)called the reception asking them to inform the police.About 22.15
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9-130.html
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 02:49:09 PM by Anna »
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2015, 03:22:13 PM »
I believe that the timing is inaccurate, as the waiter called at 10.15 and since Diane was still in the restaurant that would be about right. He then decided to call police at 10.41pm and Gerry and John Hill arrived so he called again at 10.51.

In Vitor Santos statement Times seem wrong too. John Hill didn't arrive until 22.33 so way out.
?
Vitor Manuel dos Santos With regard to the date of the disappearance on 3rd May 2007, he remembers that at 22.00-22.25he received a phone call from the reception, from receptionist Helder, who told him that John Hill was extremely agitated as a child had disappeared and that the GNR had been contacted but had not arrived yet. He added (the receptionist) that he had phoned the GNR post several times and that he had been told that they would arrive when they could but that they were investigating a theft in Odiaxere. The receptionist asked the witness whether he should contact the PSP, to which the witness replied no as this area belongs to the GNR.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9-10.html


(phoned the police several times???) (what theft?)


Helder Jorge Samaio Luis
Occupation: Receptionist Ocean Club


He knows about the situation that happened at the Ocean Club concerning the disappearance of a little given that on the day in question (03/05/2007) he was on duty and was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant between 09.30 and 22.00 who informed him that the daughter of some guests who were dining there had disappeared.
That he immediately contacted the GNR in Lagos, shortly after this the child’s father and John Hill arrived at the reception and he phoned the GNR again.
He then contacted the head of reception Vítor Santos and informed him of the situation.

He remained at the OC reception until 24.00 when he was replaced by a colleague Mr Eliseu.
He then left the OC and went home.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post193.html#p193

Who was the waiter that called at 10:15? The manager made the order to call the police at 10:41.

Poilce logs

Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline DCI

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Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2015, 03:51:39 PM »
Sylvia Baptista had a call at around 10.30. GNR were already there when she arrived at around 11 pm


Processos

Volume II

Pages 355 - 356

Silvia Maria Correia Ramos Batista

Date/Time: 2007/05/07 11H20
Maintenance Services Director
Portuguese

Concerning the issue of the process said:
. That she works at the Ocean Club since 03/03/1996, having exercised this time in the function of receptionist—for around one year and a half, Reception Manager—for around three years and since this year to the present date, Director of Maintenance Services;
. That the function of Director of Maintenance and Services she is responsible , in the area of services the hiring of people, and in the area of maintenance is responsible for the admission of employees and for the good functioning of all the machinery that composes the Ocean Club, principally, in the apartments, pools, gardens, fending, etc;
. As concerns the admission of employees, this is done in the traditional way, or is, when the need for an employee is determined in an area, the situation is commented on between the various people responsible and the rest of employees;
. Generally, it is an existing employee or other who indicates that they know of someone, in the majority of cases, resident in Lagos;
. In whatever the case, there is always a labour contract made with the employee, for a minimum of six months, and a file exists of said employee which contains identification details of said person and information regarding previous professional practices;
. An exception is made when a business in contracted to carry out a service and whose business is responsible for the employees, those being in the meanwhile accompanied by that who is responsible for works and maintenance, Mister Joao Carlos Silva Batista;
. She is aware of that which occurred in the Ocean Club resort and is aware of the disappearance of the child, around 22H30 on the 03 of May, 2007, following a telephone call from her Administrator George Robin Crossland;
. She immediately went to the Ocean Club resort, and already there were the GNR, and a search was immediately carried out throughout the resort with e search being carried out by many residents and employees of the Ocean Club;
. That on the date 03/05/07, her workday began at 09H30, having entered in the Ocean Club, through the Club Zone, having walked around the pool area and prior to that the other pools;
. At around 13H00, she went to lunch in Lagos, together with her husband, Mister Joao Carlos Silva Batista, and returned around 14H30;
. That around 18H00 she left the Ocean Club resort, having returned to the same, as a result of the circumstances already described, at around 23H00;

Her timings are a near match with Matts.


..........................................


Witness Statement

Nuno Goncalo Marques Vincente Dos Ramos Bernardo

Date: 2007/05/06

Occupation: WaiterPlace of Work: Ocean Club

Last Thursday, after having finished his shift at about 17.30 he went home where he had dinner with his family and at about 22.15 he accompanied two of his cousins, Pedro aged 23 and Joao aged almost 17, brothers who live in Lagos to the Ocean Club resort as Joao had never visited the Tapas restaurant and the witness wanted to show him it.They arrived there at about 22.30 in the midst of great commotion of people, many of them MW employees.He asked his work colleague Jeronimo, whom he calls Joe, who was working in the restaurant and who told him that a little girl had gone missing from a group of English people who were having dinner at the Tapas restaurant.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9.html
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 04:19:58 PM by DCI »
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Offline Anna

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2015, 04:09:28 PM »
If Lindsey Johnson phoned Emma at 22.17, surely, she must have known sooner?

22.17  Emma Knight   
I received a call at 22.17 from Lyndsey Johnson, the Crèche Manager, informing me that the girl had gone missing. I met Lyndsey and the Service Manager, Amy Tierney, near to the Tapas Bar and we initiated the “Mark Warner procedures for the search of a missing child”.

Full Statement from: Emma Louise KNIGHT

Occupation: Hotel Manager
Date: 30th April 2008

I am currently an employee of the Mark Warner Holiday Company, 20 Kensington Church Street, London. I have worked for this company since November 2005 and have held various positions in complexes and hotels abroad.

In March 2007 I travelled to the Mark Warner complex in Praia da Luz, Portugal. My position was Client Support Manager and my function was to receive and welcome the new guests and be available to resolve any problem that might arise during their stay.

The Praia da Luz complex covers a large area and for this reason there were several locations where I worked during the day, such as the reception, the Tapas bar area and the Millenium Restaurant.

My first contact with the couple named Gerry and Kate McCann took place in the 24 hour reception when they arrived at the resort accompanied by their 3 children. They were on holiday with a number of other families, some of them arrived by different means.

During the first part of their holiday there were no problems that were brought to my knowledge relating to their stay. I knew about their three children but I never had contact with them.

On the night of 3rd May, after having finished work, I planned to meet a group of colleagues at 22.30 to go out. At about 22.17 I received a call from Lyndsey Johnson, the Crèche Manager, informing me that the girl had gone missing. I met Lyndsey and the Service Manager, Amy Tierney, near to the Tapas Bar and we initiated the “Mark Warner procedures for the search of a missing child”.

This procedure involved the distribution of leaflets that had already been prepared, with the names of the locations, for the members of staff, indicating the zones that they should search. Once the location indicated had been searched, the leaflet was returned and another one with a different location was handed over. This procedure was followed by the members of staff, but on that night about 6 residents from the complex were also involved in the search.


I was told who the missing girl was and at the beginning of the procedure went to the McCann’s apartment to obtain the girl’s description and of the clothes she was wearing when she disappeared. When I arrived at the apartment, there was a lady on the terrace, whom I now know to be Kate McCann, accompanied by the wife of one of her friends, David Payne. Kate could not say a word, looked very upset and about to cry. It was Mrs Payne who provided me with the details that I needed.
I returned to the location where the leaflets were being distributed and passed on the information that I had gathered about the missing girl. Lyndsey was busy with the distribution of the leaflets and I went to search in the beach area. On my return I passed by the Duke Pub where I met other members of staff who also joined in the searches.

The hotel manager, John Hill arrived at the location from which the searches were being organised and I can confirm that he called the police. John stayed at the location and I several times went to search the grounds. I went with Amy and we searched the highest part of the complex behind the apartments. The search lasted for about 10 minutes and then we returned. At that moment John asked me to go to the apartment the girl had disappeared from and, on behalf of Mark Warner, provide all the help the family might need.

I went to the McCann’s apartment, entered by the patio doors and introduced myself to Kate and Mrs Payne. I entered the apartment living room and Kate and Mrs Payne stayed in the main bedroom, from where I could hear them both crying.

The twins were still asleep in the children’s bedroom and the door was half open.

A short while later, Gerry returned to the apartment accompanied by Russell. They also entered by the patio doors.

I don not remember the exact sequence of events at this time, but I do remember that I phoned John, who informed me that the police were on their way.

I remember that the police arrived between 00.00 and 00.30, entered by the main door and went to the kitchen with Gerry.

I went to the bedroom where Kate and Mrs Payne were. Kate was still upset, crying and calling Madeleine’s name, shouting “where is she?”
She also banged on the headboard. At that moment I went to check on the twins in their room and they were ok.

I remember being in the main bedroom with Kate, Mrs Payne, Gerry, Russell and David who were sitting on the bed and I sat on the floor. At that moment David suggested that the press should be contacted. Russell disagreed, saying they should keep calm and let the police take care of the situation.

At that moment Kate appeared to lose control, crying and constantly asking “where is she?” whilst banging on the bed.

Gerry remained calm throughout. On one occasion Kate and Gerry both went to the main bedroom and I could hear both of them crying.

Quite a bit later that night I remember the police asking everyone to leave the apartment. I received a call from John informing me that he had arranged for another apartment for the McCanns. I went to reception and helped Lyndsey to move the two cots to the new apartment

The McCanns went to the new apartment and I remember seeing Kate and Mrs Payne seated on the sofa, each holding one of the twins. I left the new apartment at 04.30 in the morning after instructions from John Hill. I was the last to leave, the police had already left, but I left my number saying that I was available for anything that might be needed.

After a short rest I returned to work at 08.00. I did not see Kate or Gerry during the whole morning, but went to the new apartment at about lunchtime. Kate and Gerry were not there but there were other members of the group taking care of the twins.

I remember there were helicopters flying overhead and showing them to the twins.

I remember that both Kate and Gerry were calmer that day and Kate had stopped crying. They were accompanied by family members who had travelled to Portugal and by the local priest. I remember that on the night Madeleine disappeared, Kate wanted to contact the local priest, but it was not possible to reach him by phone.

I remember being present in the apartment with Kate, Gerry and other members of the family when they gave their first press conference. Gerry sat at the table and wrote what he wanted to say to the press and Kate, although she did not want to speak to the press, accompanied Gerry and stood by his side while he read the statement. I and the others stayed at the apartment door to observe.

During the weeks that followed, when Kate and Gerry were still staying in the complex I accompanied them and helped in the preparation of the posters for Gerry and planned the way to take the twins to the crèche without being bothered by the press. Gerry was always calm and polite, whilst Kate could not hide her emotion. At times she appeared reasonably all right at other times she would walk about crying.

In relation to the specific questions, these are my replies:

1. My first meeting with the McCanns occurred when they arrived at the complex and my relationship with them was purely professional as Manager of Client Support services and a s Mark Warner representative.
2) I first spoke to Gerry and Kate McCann at about 23.00 on the night of 3rd May in their apartment after the disappearance of Madeleine.

3) Gerry and Kate said that their daughter had disappeared and that she had been abducted.

4) I would describe Kate’s reaction as hysterical and desperate. Gerry was visibly upset and cried out of our earshot, but he maintained a firm position and helped in all he could.
5) As mentioned previously, their emotional state was one of consternation and despair.


http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9-50.html
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2015, 06:15:33 PM »
That on 3rd May at about 22.05 she was working at the Mini Club, at the "dinner time period" together with colleagues Charlotte and Amy, when a female individual arrived, whose name she does not know, just that she was the mother of a child there (belonging to Toddlers 2), being a guest who was staying at the resort and who left at the end of the week, who told her that a girl called "Maddie" has disappeared, and that the girl's parents needed help in looking for her.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JACQUELINE_WILLIAMS.htm

She indicates that on May 3rd 2007, at around 10.20pm, she was informed by her colleague Amy T. that Madeleine McCann had disappeared. At that, she immediately launched the "missing child" procedure.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LYNSAY-JAYNE.htm

At about 22.17 I received a call from Lyndsey Johnson, the creche Manager, informing me that the girl had gone missing. I met Lyndsey and the Service Manager, Amy Tierney, near to the Tapas Bar and we initiated the 'Mark Warner procedures for the search of a missing child'.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm

Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Anna

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2015, 06:42:04 PM »
Perhaps, as the 'missing child' search was being implemented, time was being allowed to see what this turned up.

The question the other way round is also interesting.  What was the trigger that prompted staff to call the police at 10:41?

John Hill had arrived, so I assume that was it.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Anna

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2015, 06:49:49 PM »
Who was the waiter that called at 10:15? The manager made the order to call the police at 10:41.

Poilce logs




 Alexandre da Luz Oliveira
 He served Russell and shortly thereafter, he was alerted to strange movements in the restaurant perimeters. He refers to the movements of two men from said group—David Payne and Matthew, who appeared to be searching the gardens the areas near the bar. The witness went to the esplanade zone and saw that the table that had previously been occupied by nine adults was now occupied only by the older woman, called Dianne Webster. It was also at this time that he saw that Russell’s food was only half eaten and that the others had all finished their dinner.
David Payne and Matthew were nervously searching the area.
The witness went to them, he does not remember which one, and asked what was happening. One of them responded to the witness in English stating “GIRL IS MISSING”—that a child had gone missing. After a few moments, around 5 or 10 minutes, he heard screaming from the apartment zone and saw a woman on the balcony of 5A. He did not understand what she was saying. As it was night, and given the distance from the Tapas bar to the apartment, he was not able to determine if there was someone else next to the woman on the balcony. At that moment his colleague, Joe, met up with him and asked the witness to call the police, and that a child has gone missing and could not be found. Immediately afterwards, Joe left toward the street. He does not know who gave this information to Joe but the witness (or his colleague who believes the witness did so)called the reception asking them to inform the police.About 22.15
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9-130.html
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline mercury

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2015, 01:06:26 AM »
Even if the ocean club called police sooner it wouldnt have made much difference, would it? As the missing child was  last seen at 9.15pm and noticed gone at 10 pm? The " golden hour" was gone more or less by then
Something the portuguese police are blamed by some for losing but which in fact had nothing to do with them

its a similar issue to kate mccan saying if portugal had an amber alert system it could have helped but it couldnt as the amber system needs a witness and a car number plate
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 01:33:46 AM by mercury »