Author Topic: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?  (Read 50830 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2015, 07:03:59 AM »
That comment doesn't make sense.  Stranger Abduction is far more serious.

I don't actually want to castigate The PJ.  But I know enough about Portuguese Borders to know that it would not have been difficult to put out an Alert.  I drove through enough of them to know that it would have been easy.

Someone asked if UK police immediately alert airports and borders if a child disappears and I can find no evidence that they do.
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Alfred R Jones

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Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2015, 08:25:11 AM »
Someone asked if UK police immediately alert airports and borders if a child disappears and I can find no evidence that they do.
If there is a likelihood that they may be taken out of the country then they do.  Look at the case of the three girls who ran away to Syria - The UK authorities were lambasted for not acting quicker to alert aiports and border controls.   

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2015, 09:21:31 AM »
If there is a likelihood that they may be taken out of the country then they do.  Look at the case of the three girls who ran away to Syria - The UK authorities were lambasted for not acting quicker to alert aiports and border controls.

Don't you think "ran away to Syria" may have had some impact in the decision making? &%+((£
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Offline Lace

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2015, 09:40:22 AM »
With the OC being a holiday destination to many from different countries.    You would have thought when Madeleine wasn't found that an alert would have been given to ferries, airports, border etc.

Instead the police went away and came back late the next day.


Offline G-Unit

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2015, 11:28:34 AM »
With the OC being a holiday destination to many from different countries.    You would have thought when Madeleine wasn't found that an alert would have been given to ferries, airports, border etc.

Instead the police went away and came back late the next day.

You may think what you like, it doesn't mean it is normal practice for any police force in any country to alert borders, ferries and airports if a child is reported missing.
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Offline jassi

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2015, 11:32:37 AM »
With the OC being a holiday destination to many from different countries.    You would have thought when Madeleine wasn't found that an alert would have been given to ferries, airports, border etc.

Instead the police went away and came back late the next day.

Really?  What time of day would that be then ?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

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Offline Anna

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2015, 12:58:30 PM »
Amber Alert did not exist at the time in Portugal and even if it did, there was no description of the abductor or any car which are two prerequisites FOR the Amber alert. You can criticise Portugal as nuch as you like for whatever reason but you dont criticise parents for leaving three toddlers on their own in an open apartment off the main road and out of sight and hearing, for at least half hour stretches, if they are to be believed of course.

Nobody, that I recall, has said that the McCanns and their friends done the right thing in leaving their children when they were on holiday.

The McCanns now regret their actions and will do so for the rest of their lives.

It seems that the MW resorts operated a listening service in many of their other resorts and The Tapas group were trying to replicate that very same procedure.

I repeat. The path to take by the group, was not the ideal solution and ended up with a disastrous result, but it is too late to do anything about it now.

However the same outcome could have occurred, if they were, operating a listening service in the OC.
I believe this service has been discontinued in their resorts now.

As for evidence to initiate a border alert……….Tannerman who was believed to be the abductor at the time, was strong enough evidence IMO.

A yellow alert was initiated with Interpol on the 7th may IIRC.

Back on Topic...Why did the Ocean club not call the police sooner?
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
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Alfred R Jones

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Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2015, 02:16:56 PM »
Someone asked if UK police immediately alert airports and borders if a child disappears and I can find no evidence that they do.
It is one of the six key actions undertaken under the Amber Alert scheme:

5.Allowing for the quick issuing of cross border alerts when a child goes missing near an EU border;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMBER_Alert#Europe

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2015, 03:22:51 PM »
It wouldn't make any difference who alerted what border/s No one can point to an exact time Maddie went missing and by what means.

 Maddie was not Physically ,independently seen alive since early that day
David Payne can't recall much of why Gerry sent him to 'check' on Kate ,how long that took and was he inside /outside the apartment. Assuming that did actually happen(no independent corroboration) The first time we hear about Maddie being 'missing' is on KATES first check @ appx 10 pm remember>  we used listening service method* not watching and physically checking.

It is interesting that both Gerry and David mention their last sight of Maddie it is similar...angelic, angel?... I was just thinking out loud on that one.
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline jassi

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2015, 03:49:32 PM »
Amber Alert has been implemented in UK as Child Rescue Alert
 http://ukpaedos-exposed.com/uk-child-abusers-named-and-shamed/facts-and-stats-on-child-abuse/child-abduction-the-stats/child-rescue-alert-what-is-it/

It appears to concentrate on media alert and makes no mention border alerts. Perhaps that appears elsewhere in police procedures.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2015, 04:38:55 PM »
Amber Alert has been implemented in UK as Child Rescue Alert
 http://ukpaedos-exposed.com/uk-child-abusers-named-and-shamed/facts-and-stats-on-child-abuse/child-abduction-the-stats/child-rescue-alert-what-is-it/

It appears to concentrate on media alert and makes no mention border alerts. Perhaps that appears elsewhere in police procedures.

Well if Mercury and Anna are correct and the system was only implemented on 7th May that would have been just in the nick of too late anyway.
My recollection of south east and northern Portugal is that the border is a bit like that between Northern Ireland and the Republic. Less than a handful of "official" crossing points and the rest has the potential for leaking like a sieve. Also both borders are rivers for much of their length and we are led to believe the "abduction gang" were smooth operators. In short without a shedful of helicopters and coast guard cutters .......well work it out for yourselves.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Anna

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2015, 05:40:18 PM »
Well if Mercury and Anna are correct and the system was only implemented on 7th May that would have been just in the nick of too late anyway.
My recollection of south east and northern Portugal is that the border is a bit like that between Northern Ireland and the Republic. Less than a handful of "official" crossing points and the rest has the potential for leaking like a sieve. Also both borders are rivers for much of their length and we are led to believe the "abduction gang" were smooth operators. In short without a shedful of helicopters and coast guard cutters .......well work it out for yourselves.

Here you go. It appears that the alert was requested 4th may. The timing goes from bottom up.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELINE.htm

Then we need to get back on topic please.

Processos Vol II
Page 516

FAX

Date: 8th May 2007

VERY URGENT


To: The Director of the National Interpol Office

From: DIC Portimao, PJ

Subject: YELLOW ALERT
Missing Person: Madeleine Beth McCann

We request a YELLOW ALERT for the disappearance of Madeleine Beth McCann, whose complete identification is attached.

The diffusion of the yellow alert is requested according to the dispatch from the Prosecutor of the Comarca Court in Lagos, Sandra Marques, which is also enclosed.

With best compliments

Signed

The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation.

G. Amaral


Processos Vol II
Page 487

Emails

From: DIC Portimao
Date: 7th May 2007
To: Ana Filipa Luz
Subject: Disappearance of Madeleine McCann DOB 12-05-2003

From: National Interpol Office
Date: 7th May 2007
To: DIC Portimao
Subject: Disappearance of Madeleine McCann DOB 12-05-2003


Original message
From: Ana Pires Amaral
Sent on 4th May 2007 17.51
To: National Interpol Office
Subject: Disappearance of Madeleine McCann DOB 12-05-2003


The National Interpol Office is going to proceed to international release of information. We remind you of the need for insertion into the SIS which should be requested from the SIRENE office.

Compliments

Ana Mafalda Duarte


Original message
From: National Interpol Office
Sent: 4th May 2007. 11:05
To: AnaMafalda Pires Amaral
Subject: Disappearance of Madeleine McCann DOB 12-05-2003
Importance: High


Original message
From DIC Portimao
Sent: 4th May 2007 10:38
To: National Interpol Office
C.C. Tavares de Almeida
Subject: Disappearance of Madeleine McCann DOB 12-05-2003
Importance: High


For having disappeared on 03-05-2007 at about 22.40 from the Ocean Club, Praia da Luz diffusion via Internet and OPC at international level is requested. Forms are attached with a photo and description of the missing girl.

For more information contact Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida, Chief Inspector Jorge Reis or DIC Portimao

With compliments


(Page 488 is a copy of this page)


ETA Link
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 05:54:52 PM by Anna »
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline DCI

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Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2015, 05:59:57 PM »
Here you go. It appears that the alert was requested 4th may. The timing goes from bottom up. I cant provide a link right now as the site is not responding, but I will add ASAP.

Then we need to get back on topic please.

Processos Vol II
Page 516

FAX

Date: 8th May 2007

VERY URGENT


To: The Director of the National Interpol Office

From: DIC Portimao, PJ

Subject: YELLOW ALERT
Missing Person: Madeleine Beth McCann

We request a YELLOW ALERT for the disappearance of Madeleine Beth McCann, whose complete identification is attached.

The diffusion of the yellow alert is requested according to the dispatch from the Prosecutor of the Comarca Court in Lagos, Sandra Marques, which is also enclosed.

With best compliments

Signed

The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation.

G. Amaral


Processos Vol II
Page 487

Emails

From: DIC Portimao
Date: 7th May 2007
To: Ana Filipa Luz
Subject: Disappearance of Madeleine McCann DOB 12-05-2003

From: National Interpol Office
Date: 7th May 2007
To: DIC Portimao
Subject: Disappearance of Madeleine McCann DOB 12-05-2003


Original message
From: Ana Pires Amaral
Sent on 4th May 2007 17.51
To: National Interpol Office
Subject: Disappearance of Madeleine McCann DOB 12-05-2003


The National Interpol Office is going to proceed to international release of information. We remind you of the need for insertion into the SIS which should be requested from the SIRENE office.

Compliments

Ana Mafalda Duarte


Original message
From: National Interpol Office
Sent: 4th May 2007. 11:05
To: AnaMafalda Pires Amaral
Subject: Disappearance of Madeleine McCann DOB 12-05-2003
Importance: High


Original message
From DIC Portimao
Sent: 4th May 2007 10:38
To: National Interpol Office
C.C. Tavares de Almeida
Subject: Disappearance of Madeleine McCann DOB 12-05-2003
Importance: High


For having disappeared on 03-05-2007 at about 22.40 from the Ocean Club, Praia da Luz diffusion via Internet and OPC at international level is requested. Forms are attached with a photo and description of the missing girl.

For more information contact Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida, Chief Inspector Jorge Reis or DIC Portimao

With compliments


(Page 488 is a copy of this page)


Here you are, Anna.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELINE.htm#p2p487


Still requesting yellow alert, 5 days after.







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Offline Anna

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2015, 06:07:43 PM »

Here you are, Anna.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELINE.htm#p2p487


Still requesting yellow alert, 5 days after.

Thanks DCI.

“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Anna

Re: Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2015, 06:18:31 PM »
The OC did not inform GNR until 10.44 they arrived around 11pm

The GNR did not inform the police from OC, until much later. so it was only staff and neighbours who were searching?.
Take your pick of the times(different) stated as the police being informed by GNR.
also seems the time of the disappearance is stated as the time (near) when OC made the first phone call.


Service Information

Date: 2007/05/04

To: Criminal Investigation Coordinator
From: Vítor Martins, Inspector

Matter: Participation of disappearance of a minor [child]

It is my duty to inform that today, at around 00H10, officer Patrício from the GNR in Lagos, communicated the disappearance of a female child, aged four and of English nationality, to this force.

According to the GNR officer, the disappearance took place yesterday at around 22H40, in a bedroom of a ground floor apartment at the OCEAN CLUB, located in Praia da Luz, where a family composed of a couple and three underage children was staying.
-------------------------------------




Processos Volume I – Page 1 - 5

NUIPC 201107.O GALGS PJ Inquiries Section : 4th Brigade

Date: 2007/05/04 : Service Information

To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

From: Vitor Martins, Inspector


Subject: Participation in the Disappearance of the Child.

I inform you that on this date, at about 01.00 Officer Patricio from the GNR informed this police station about the disappearance of a female child aged four and of British nationality.

According to the GNR officer, the disappearance would have happened at about 22.40 yesterday, from a room of a ground floor apartment of the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, where a family was staying composed of a couple and three small children.

The layout of the apartment is composed of two bedrooms, a kitchen, living room and bathroom.

The front door as well as the back door (living room patio doors) of the apartment allow easy access to the public roads.

During dinner the couple would on several occasions go to the children’s bedroom, at a given moment in one of these visits the mother realised that one of the girls was missing and gave the alarm to try to locate her.

Giuven these facts and on superior orders, police services were activated consisting of the undersigned and Officer Barreiras, Deputy Specialist who immediately left for the scene and began to carry out investigations.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post638.html#p565

rocessos Vol 15

Pages 3856-3858

Witness Statement

Date: 2007/11/20 Time: 14H00 DIC Portimão

João Franciso Páscoa Luis Trigo Barreiras

Occupation: PJ Deputy Specialist

Place of work: Criminal Investigation Department Portimão

He is a specialist in the area of Criminology for the PJ and works in the Criminal Investigation department in Portimão.

His professional responsibilities are to carry out examinations at crime scenes, such as detecting finger prints, biological examinations as well as the identification, signalling and collection of other traces. He is also responsible for making photographic reports and sketches. On the date of the events – 3rd May 2007 he was on duty at the Portimão DIC.

At about 00.10 on the morning of the 4th, he had just finished filing a report about a fire, when he was informed that a child had disappeared in Praia da Luz.

He was brought into service together with an Inspector from the station. It was the inspector’s duty to take notes of the services as well as all the information relating to them. The inspector who accompanied him on that date, Vitor Martins, informed him that the case in question was that of the disappearance of a small girl, of British nationality, who was staying at the OC with her parents.

The immediately left for the scene and arrived about 30 – 40 minutes later, at about 00.40/00.50.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post112.html#p112

“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato