Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?

[pegasus]

Were these phonecalls at 2314 and 2317 made while GNR are still at reception, or were they made after GNR has arrived at apartment? Click to enlarge

[Angelo222]

The golden hour as referred to earlier in this thread means exactly that ie a period of an hour or less.

[Brietta]

The golden hour as referred to earlier in this thread means exactly that ie a period of an hour or less.

Timewise the 'golden hour' in Madeleine McCann's case was more than half gone before her absence was  discovered by her mother. 

Which was possibly all the more reason for a sense of urgency to be engendered in the police response to the event.

In consideration of the urgency of the situation the PJ should have had boots on the ground at first light rather than waiting for the start of the day shift before taking over from the GNR.



**snip
Inspector Phil Shakeshess, Child Rescue Alert project manager, said there was a short but crucial window of time to find a child before he or she was likely to be harmed.

"All the research nationally suggests that when a child is abducted, on one of the rare occasions a child is abducted, three to six hours afterwards is when they are most likely to be harmed or killed," he said.

"It is crucial to get information out as soon as possible so that the public acts as the eyes and ears of the investigation."

He said the figures on this golden hour were very reliable, based on historical investigations of abductions.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Police+could+have+missed+%27golden+hour%27+in+Maddy+hunt.-a0163842705

[OxfordBloo]

The golden hour as referred to earlier in this thread means exactly that ie a period of an hour or less.

Except for the cite that says it is used to metaphorically apply to longer tome scales.

You may choose to believe it only ever means an hour, but you would be wrong as proven by my cite from the real world.

[ShiningInLuz]

So GNR arrive at main reception at about 2258 or a little earlier.
They spend some time at reception speaking with the father, with SB translating.
After that, they drive to the apartment.
See attached phone records, do the GNR arrive at the apartment before, or after, these two phonecalls?

Can you explain how these two calls fit in, please?

The GNR would have gone to OC reception first.  They would not have had a clue as to where G5A was in Luz, so they would have needed to be pointed in its direction.

As to how long they spent in reception, that I have no clue about.  They could have yakked for a couple of minutes, or ten, quite easily.  I assume, but do not know, one of the messages at this time would have been not 'missing' but 'abducted'.  How long would a British bobby spend on this?

[ShiningInLuz]

Timewise the 'golden hour' in Madeleine McCann's case was more than half gone before her absence was  discovered by her mother. 

Which was possibly all the more reason for a sense of urgency to be engendered in the police response to the event.

In consideration of the urgency of the situation the PJ should have had boots on the ground at first light rather than waiting for the start of the day shift before taking over from the GNR.



**snip
Inspector Phil Shakeshess, Child Rescue Alert project manager, said there was a short but crucial window of time to find a child before he or she was likely to be harmed.

"All the research nationally suggests that when a child is abducted, on one of the rare occasions a child is abducted, three to six hours afterwards is when they are most likely to be harmed or killed," he said.

"It is crucial to get information out as soon as possible so that the public acts as the eyes and ears of the investigation."

He said the figures on this golden hour were very reliable, based on historical investigations of abductions.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Police+could+have+missed+%27golden+hour%27+in+Maddy+hunt.-a0163842705

PJ were in 5A assessing the situation at around 00.30 on 4 May 2007.  They were not waiting for first light or the day shift.

We are now stretching the golden hour to about 3 hours between Madeleine's disappearance and PJ arrival.  Let me see.  I can walk 12 miles in 3 hours (normal walking pace).  With a bit of pi x r squared, chopped in half because of the sea, that's about 200 square miles to seal off.

And that is walking, not in one of those fancy modern things called a car.  Not having a dig, Brietta, but until you look at the numbers, the idea that Luz could have been sealed off does not stand up to scrutiny.

[G-Unit]

Were these phonecalls at 2314 and 2317 made while GNR are still at reception, or were they made after GNR has arrived at apartment? Click to enlarge

I can't imagine why he would need to call her when they were both at the apartment?

[pegasus]

Can you explain how these two calls fit in, please?

The GNR would have gone to OC reception first.  They would not have had a clue as to where G5A was in Luz, so they would have needed to be pointed in its direction.

As to how long they spent in reception, that I have no clue about.  They could have yakked for a couple of minutes, or ten, quite easily.  I assume, but do not know, one of the messages at this time would have been not 'missing' but 'abducted'.  How long would a British bobby spend on this?

Yes GNR went to reception on R Direita first. GM MO and SB were there. And yes, according to a GNR statement, GNR were told, at reception, that it was abduction . I am trying to work out how long they spent at reception.

Roque, Costa, GM, MO, and SB then went to 5A in the police car.

The two calls at 2114 and 2317 were from father to mother. About 9s and about 26s IIRC.  I am trying to work out how they fit in.

[pegasus]

I can't imagine why he would need to call her when they were both at the apartment?

Agreed. But were the two calls made before GNR GM MO and SB arrive at 5a? Or after, during subsequent searching?

[G-Unit]

Agreed. But were the two calls made before GNR GM MO and SB arrive at 5a? Or after, during subsequent searching?

It's a good question. Common sense would say; first call 'They're here at last' second call 'On way to you', but nothing about this case is so simple is it? Silvia Batista says she was at the apartment when she was told that the GNR had arrived. She went to Reception to meet them. Gerry and the other one followed her. When Gerry saw the GNR officers he knelt down and screamed twice 'of anger', then got into their car with her, the police and his friend and they all went to the apartment. After that she stayed at the apartment and seems to think Gerry did also.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm

[pegasus]

It's a good question. Common sense would say; first call 'They're here at last' second call 'On way to you', but nothing about this case is so simple is it? Silvia Batista says she was at the apartment when she was told that the GNR had arrived. She went to Reception to meet them. Gerry and the other one followed her. When Gerry saw the GNR officers he knelt down and screamed twice 'of anger', then got into their car with her, the police and his friend and they all went to the apartment. After that she stayed at the apartment and seems to think Gerry did also.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm

If the 2317 voice call is "On way to you", that means Costa and Roque arrive at apartment after 2317.

I am curious to find the number of minutes which elapsed, starting with the brit tourists rushing from restaurant to apartment, and ending with Roque and Costa arrival at apartment.

[G-Unit]

If the 2317 voice call is "On way to you", that means Costa and Roque arrive at apartment after 2317.

I am curious to find the number of minutes which elapsed, starting with the brit tourists rushing from restaurant to apartment, and ending with Roque and Costa arrival at apartment.

If they arrived at 2300 they must have spoken to the receptionist first. Would he have told them why he called them? I expect so. so a couple of minutes. Next he should have called John Hill because John Hill told him to ring the GNR, twice. we have the records of his calls to reception. As he didn't call John Hill, perhaps John Hill was at reception waiting for the police. So he and Helder together told the GNR why they were called out. With translations (John Hill has no Portuguese) that would take 5 minutes? Did John Hill or the receptionist know that Silvia had gone to the apartment? Someone told her the GNR had arrived. She didn't say who or how, so maybe John Hill called her on his mobile, because I don't think reception did. We are now at 5-7 minutes after 2300. Silvia walks to reception followed by Gerry and friend. Gerry falls to knees and screams. 2310? Almost at the first call time?

[pegasus]

If they arrived at 2300 they must have spoken to the receptionist first. Would he have told them why he called them? I expect so. so a couple of minutes. Next he should have called John Hill because John Hill told him to ring the GNR, twice. we have the records of his calls to reception. As he didn't call John Hill, perhaps John Hill was at reception waiting for the police. So he and Helder together told the GNR why they were called out. With translations (John Hill has no Portuguese) that would take 5 minutes? Did John Hill or the receptionist know that Silvia had gone to the apartment? Someone told her the GNR had arrived. She didn't say who or how, so maybe John Hill called her on his mobile, because I don't think reception did. We are now at 5-7 minutes after 2300. Silvia walks to reception followed by Gerry and friend. Gerry falls to knees and screams. 2310? Almost at the first call time?

Makes sense.
Here are mobile records (above) combined:
2251 R to M 14s
2258 M to R txt
2259 R to M txt
2300 M to R txt
2305 M to R txt
2306 R to M 58s
2314 G to K 6s
2317 G to K 29s
2324 R to M txt
Purpose of R to M calls and txts is clear in R rog: "we were just waiting for the Police to come, which you know took ages, I remember ringing M at least once or twice to say you know, look have you rung them, where are they"

[Eleanor]

Does any of this really matter?

[Mr Gray]

Does any of this really matter?

of course not