Author Topic: Was Kate McCanns "f.....g tosser" comment directed at Ricardo Paiva offensive?  (Read 137557 times)

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Offline G-Unit

I will never blame the victim of a crime for the crime...I will always blame the criminal

The victim in this case is Madeleine McCann.
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Ignore and break the rules
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Offline jassi

The victim in this case is Madeleine McCann.

Now don't be encouraging him to rant on over one of his little hobby horses.  8(8-))
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Carana

I don't suppose either of the McCanns would be impressed if one of their patients told them what was wrong with them and what the treatment should be. I doubt if  the Portuguese police were greatly impressed to be told how to do their job either.

Not only did the parents inform the police what crime had been committed, they told them how to investigate it too. 'Bring sniffer dogs!' 'Close the roads!'. I doubt if even our wonderful police would have managed that within a couple of hours. The criticism began immediately. 'No-ones looking for her!' when the town was full of people and police officers looking till 4.30am.

The comment by Kate McCann was just a continuation of the contempt and lack of respect the parents had towards the Portuguese police from the very beginning. Those joining in should perhaps remember that those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Our own police force has been shown to be less than perfect itself recently, and is having to be investigated for a variety of failings.
Hopefully the McCann case won't end up on the list too.

Hopefully, seasoned police would be used to panicked reactions in the case of frequent crimes.

As missing children are a relatively rare occurrence in Portugal (so we are told), what training would they have had to deal with the situation?

Wouldn't a growing or even sudden realisation that a police officer you trusted was convinced that you had harmed your child, and therefore no one was searching for her - perhaps hadn't done for some time, be a reason to be upset?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 03:52:21 PM by Carana »

Offline Alice Purjorick

They couldn't have known whether this was a good idea or not. It could have sparked hoaxes (which it did) and wasted police time on unlikely sightings (which it did), even though numerous sightings may have been genuine.

On the other hand, imagine the headlines "Parents refuse huge reward offered for anyone who finds and returns their child alive".

Can't win, can you?

My point being that regardless of the surnames, religion, education and sexual proclivities of those involved, a well advertised pile of dosh, be it a reward or fund, for an altruistic purpose will attract those with an eye to the main chance. For better or worse that is how the world spins. Maybe the Drs McCann were innocents abroad in that world but some of their advisers purported not to be and should have been a bit more hip.
If you are going to let a £1/2MM contract the least an experienced person would do is carry out a Dun and Bradstreet search or its equivalent.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Carana

Many serving police officers drink regularly and get drunk off duty as a means to counter stress, often this escalates with the inevitable result.  Amaral was no different and what's more, he acknowledges it.

Quite possibly. However, it's not clear to me from his own accounts as to where he was during critical moments, i.e. on duty and sober.

Offline faithlilly

Portuguese police have ignored hundreds of potential new leads in the Madeleine McCann case because of their belief that she is already dead, it has been claimed.

By Fiona Govan in Lisbon
7:30AM GMT 12 Feb 2010


Details of possible sightings from across Europe have been forwarded to Portuguese investigators by local forces but no effort has been made to follow them up.

Kate and Gerry McCann, both 41, learnt of the existence of the dossier of new information, including tips offs, license plate numbers and even photographs of children who could be their daughter, during a court hearing in Lisbon that ended Wednesday.

"They were shocked at what was in it and, even worse, what little had been done to follow any of it up,” said Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCann family.

"Kate and Gerry have consistently known that potential fresh information was not being properly followed up, if at all.”
The potential new leads date from July 2008 when the case was officially shelved by Portuguese police after they failed to find any evidence of the missing girl.

The confidential dossier contains hundreds of statements that could prove useful in solving the mystery of Madeleine’s disappearance from an Algarve holiday apartment on May 3, 2007.

The McCanns’ legal team became aware of the file during court proceedings as part of a libel trial brought by the couple against the former detective, Goncalo Amaral, who led the initial investigation.

The McCanns’ Portuguese lawyer, Isabel Duarte, accused current Algarve police chief Ricardo Paiva of deliberately ignoring the leads because they did not fit in with the theory that Madeleine’s parents were involved in her disappearance.


Last month he appeared in court as a witness in support of former colleague Mr Amaral, who has written a book alleging that the girl died in the holiday apartment and her parents fabricated a tale of abduction after hiding her body.


"Every piece of information (in the dossier of potential new leads) was treated the same way - Ricardo Paiva writes on it 'this is not relevant to the investigation',” Mrs Duarte said from her office in the Portuguese capital on Thursday.


“He believed and to this day still believes that Madeleine is dead. I asked him: ‘How can you find a person when you are not looking for them?’”.


She said some of the leads seemed credible, including a cluster of sightings by independent eye witnesses in northern Italy, and had been forwarded by police forces in the UK, Spain, France and Italy but ignored by their Portuguese counterparts.


Copies of the files would now be passed to the McCanns to be followed up by private investigators hired to search for their daughter.


"But I am angry because it is the Portuguese investigative police who should be doing this job,” Mrs Duarte, added.
"They have the power and capability to do it. It is they who should be doing it not and not my clients."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/7215353/Portuguese-police-ignored-Madeleine-McCann-leads.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1231757/Madeleine-McCann-investigator-didnt-listen-ANY-tip-offs-given-hotline--squandered-500-000.html

'
Johan Selle, the director of operations at iJet, the US firm that managed the Find Madeleine phone line, revealed that for a year nobody even asked his company if they could listen to any of the calls received.
Mr Selle said his operators, in Annapolis, Virginia, had answered 'hundreds of calls', but the information seemed wasted - possibly squandering valuable leads.
He said: 'We delivered Oakley a report with a summary of the calls and said if they wanted to come back they could listen to the recording, but nobody did.
'For someone with an understanding of the case it would be very easy for some to say that maybe 80 or 90 per cent of the calls were hogwash, but there may be a percentage where one would say maybe we should listen to this one or listen to that one. But our understanding is that this never took place '

Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

What would the result be if a British police officer acted in the same fashion that the alleged FT, Ricardo Paiva did by totally ignoring information sent to him as head of an investigation?

When this scandal was revealed in 2010 ( that's nearly two years of information on a missing child being totally ignored) no-one in the Portuguese judiciary seemed unduly perturbed as there is no evidence of an inquiry being conducted or any disciplinary proceedings being undertaken as a result.

Exactly why he was sent to Madeira after his alleged internet activities is not made entirely clear but from what I can gather, it is not looked on by PJ officers as a career enhancing move.

And still no proof is forthcoming.

Yet what we do have proof of is not one call to the Find Madeleine helpline was listened to by Oakley who were agents of the McCanns at the time and the McCanns not once queried this lack of feedback. AND THIS WAS THEIR DAUGHTER !
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Carana

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1231757/Madeleine-McCann-investigator-didnt-listen-ANY-tip-offs-given-hotline--squandered-500-000.html

'
Johan Selle, the director of operations at iJet, the US firm that managed the Find Madeleine phone line, revealed that for a year nobody even asked his company if they could listen to any of the calls received.
Mr Selle said his operators, in Annapolis, Virginia, had answered 'hundreds of calls', but the information seemed wasted - possibly squandering valuable leads.
He said: 'We delivered Oakley a report with a summary of the calls and said if they wanted to come back they could listen to the recording, but nobody did.
'For someone with an understanding of the case it would be very easy for some to say that maybe 80 or 90 per cent of the calls were hogwash, but there may be a percentage where one would say maybe we should listen to this one or listen to that one. But our understanding is that this never took place '

Was iJet paid by Oakley?

Offline faithlilly

Was iJet paid by Oakley?

And why is that relevant ?

Only two things are relevant with regard to the current discussion.

1) The only 'proof' we have that none of the information in the file marked 'not relevant to the investigation' by Paiva was followed up comes from the McCanns and their lawyer Duarte. There is not one jot of independent confirmation.

2) We have independent confirmation that not one call to the Madeleine helpline was listened to never mind auctioned by Oakley or the McCanns.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 04:24:43 PM by Faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
[quote *&*%£ author=Faithlilly link=topic=6176.msg230872#msg230872 date=1428315306]
I'm sure they are, poor mites  8(8-))
[/quote] @)(++(* perhaps you should report me to social services? Swearing in front of two teenagers must surely be a case of child abuse innit?

Offline faithlilly

@)(++(* perhaps you should report me to social services? Swearing in front of two teenagers must surely be a case of child abuse innit?

Of course not but I'm sure the social embarrassment of having a dad who spends endless hours on the computer defending people he has never met must be, right ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Of course not but I'm sure the social embarrassment of having a dad who spends endless hours on the computer defending people he has never met must be, right ?
I've been out all day with my kids, what have you been doing?

Offline faithlilly

I've been out all day with my kids, what have you been doing?

Ironing p, unfortunately  8(8-))
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Lyall

  • Guest
Portuguese police have ignored hundreds of potential new leads in the Madeleine McCann case because of their belief that she is already dead, it has been claimed.

By Fiona Govan in Lisbon
7:30AM GMT 12 Feb 2010


Details of possible sightings from across Europe have been forwarded to Portuguese investigators by local forces but no effort has been made to follow them up.

Kate and Gerry McCann, both 41, learnt of the existence of the dossier of new information, including tips offs, license plate numbers and even photographs of children who could be their daughter, during a court hearing in Lisbon that ended Wednesday.

"They were shocked at what was in it and, even worse, what little had been done to follow any of it up,” said Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCann family.

"Kate and Gerry have consistently known that potential fresh information was not being properly followed up, if at all.”
The potential new leads date from July 2008 when the case was officially shelved by Portuguese police after they failed to find any evidence of the missing girl.

The confidential dossier contains hundreds of statements that could prove useful in solving the mystery of Madeleine’s disappearance from an Algarve holiday apartment on May 3, 2007.

The McCanns’ legal team became aware of the file during court proceedings as part of a libel trial brought by the couple against the former detective, Goncalo Amaral, who led the initial investigation.

The McCanns’ Portuguese lawyer, Isabel Duarte, accused current Algarve police chief Ricardo Paiva of deliberately ignoring the leads because they did not fit in with the theory that Madeleine’s parents were involved in her disappearance.


Last month he appeared in court as a witness in support of former colleague Mr Amaral, who has written a book alleging that the girl died in the holiday apartment and her parents fabricated a tale of abduction after hiding her body.


"Every piece of information (in the dossier of potential new leads) was treated the same way - Ricardo Paiva writes on it 'this is not relevant to the investigation',” Mrs Duarte said from her office in the Portuguese capital on Thursday.


“He believed and to this day still believes that Madeleine is dead. I asked him: ‘How can you find a person when you are not looking for them?’”.


She said some of the leads seemed credible, including a cluster of sightings by independent eye witnesses in northern Italy, and had been forwarded by police forces in the UK, Spain, France and Italy but ignored by their Portuguese counterparts.


Copies of the files would now be passed to the McCanns to be followed up by private investigators hired to search for their daughter.


"But I am angry because it is the Portuguese investigative police who should be doing this job,” Mrs Duarte, added.
"They have the power and capability to do it. It is they who should be doing it not and not my clients."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/7215353/Portuguese-police-ignored-Madeleine-McCann-leads.html

That article is a masterpiece of spin, DCI.

What on earth could Portuguese police do about sightings in "UK, Spain, France and Italy"?

Offline Carana

And why is that relevant ?

Only two things are relevant with regard to the current discussion.

1) The only 'proof' we have that none of the information in the file marked 'not relevant to the investigation' by Paiva was followed up comes from the McCanns and their lawyer Duarte. There is not one jot of independent confirmation.

2) We have independent confirmation that not one call to the Madeleine helpline was listened to never mind auctioned by Oakley or the McCanns.

The independent source being... ?