Author Topic: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?  (Read 412660 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #240 on: April 14, 2015, 10:26:36 PM »
Once we get beyond the fact that Madeleine is missing there is none.

no hard evidence but of course it is possible to prove something beyond reasonable doubt without hard evidence

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #241 on: April 14, 2015, 11:20:06 PM »

HARD EVIDENCE.  I am not seeing any of that at the moment. So stand by for deletions.

Is there is, or is there not, hard evidence?

I happen to be of the opinion that not only is there a lot of hard evidence, but a lot (a subset, but still a lot) is in the public domain.

PS It is pissing down like the sky is falling down in Luz at this very moment.

Can we have a few more laughs?
What's up, old man?

Offline Brietta

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #242 on: April 15, 2015, 09:41:58 AM »
4 May 2007

At the police station that first afternoon, Guilhermino Encarnação had briefly mentioned three potential explanations for Madeleine’s disappearance: a burglary that had ‘changed direction’, abduction and the possibility that she had wandered off by herself. (Madeleine)


They certainly had sufficient evidence that burglars were active in the holiday complex to warrant the theory of a burglary which had 'changed direction'.

The fact that two of these burglaries had occurred in block 5 makes that theory even more compelling.


**snip

Last updated at 11:48 19 August 2007

The under-fire Portuguese police are preparing to take a fresh look at reports of two earlier break-ins in the apartment block where Madeleine McCann and her family stayed.

Both burglaries - one in the apartment directly above the McCann's flat - are understood to have happened two weeks before the family of five arrived at the Mark Warner Ocean Club in Praia da Luz.

One was believed to have been committed by someone with a key to the burgled apartment.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-476064/Madeleine-Portuguese-police-examine-burglaries-resort.html#ixzz3XMgiDDvY



"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline jassi

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #243 on: April 15, 2015, 10:19:29 AM »

They certainly had sufficient evidence that burglars were active in the holiday complex to warrant the theory of a burglary which had 'changed direction'.

The fact that two of these burglaries had occurred in block 5 makes that theory even more compelling.


**snip

Last updated at 11:48 19 August 2007

The under-fire Portuguese police are preparing to take a fresh look at reports of two earlier break-ins in the apartment block where Madeleine McCann and her family stayed.

Both burglaries - one in the apartment directly above the McCann's flat - are understood to have happened two weeks before the family of five arrived at the Mark Warner Ocean Club in Praia da Luz.

One was believed to have been committed by someone with a key to the burgled apartment.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-476064/Madeleine-Portuguese-police-examine-burglaries-resort.html#ixzz3XMgiDDvY


Was believed - so no proof then?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Brietta

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #244 on: April 15, 2015, 10:22:14 AM »

Margaret Hall describes a situation when she went out of apartment 5A by the front (patio) doors and saw a man standing by the movement sensitive lights, man watching the apartments

When she shouted ~ “the man came out of the darkness, the lights were activated."

She was disturbed by the encounter because ~ “it was obvious that there was no good reason for him to be hiding in the darkness outside the apartment. “
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARGARET_HALL.htm

Were those lights active on the night of 3rd May?

If not ... why not?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #245 on: April 15, 2015, 10:25:04 AM »

Was believed - so no proof then?

You tell me ... did the cops check it out at the time ... or did they wait till August when this article was written?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #246 on: April 15, 2015, 10:38:26 AM »

Was believed - so no proof then?

What is funny is that the useless PJ had that possible theory from day 1 and SY are using the same burglary gone wrong theory at present. That open window you see with not even a glove mark found.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #247 on: April 15, 2015, 12:10:08 PM »
Bit off the wall but I'd add 'given away' to that list. Maybe unlikely but could it have been a pre planned money making scam from the get go?

3 June 2007

Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa said: "We continue to investigate the possibility that whoever took this child could have done it for money, and hasn't asked for a ransom because they've panicked with the headlines the case has generated.

"Who would dare ask for money for this child when her image is going around the world?"

He added: "A kidnapper could easily have a child hidden, possibly close by."

21 May 2007

"There are strong suspicions we are dealing with a sexual predator. As a rule these individuals abuse their victims, kill them and get rid of the bodies.

"What we want is to find the girl safe and sound, but it is true as time goes by this hope is becoming less likely."

Forensic scientists have found no evidence to suggest Madeleine's room at the Praia de Luz resort was broken into, the source said.

There were also no fingerprints other than those of the family and no sign of a struggle. The source added: "These are preliminary results and further tests may bring new clues.

"It is painful to say this, but we must be realistic the chances of finding her alive are getting less and less.

"All the publicity in the media may have made the kidnapper get rid of his victim and any clues."

Detectives today said they want to quiz a cousin of prime suspect Robert Murat.

Police sources said they were "very eager" to talk to Genaro Acosta Gonzalez, an estate agent working in Spain.

The development came as Maddy's father, consultant cardiologist Gerry McCann, arrived back in Britain.

25 May 2007

Earlier, it emerged British police have taken a more active role on the ground in the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance. Experts have begun working around the holiday apartment in southern Portugal where the she went missing three weeks ago. Police would not say which British force had sent the two specialists, who could be seen taking measurements and walking around with plans of the crime scene in Praia da Luz.

27 May 2007

Madeleine's father, Gerry, said the sighting of the man "with what appeared to be a child in his arms" was "significant" to his daughter's case.

Portuguese police said they released the description of the man seen on the night the four-year-old was taken from the Praia da Luz apartment in the Algarve, Portugal, in order to eliminate false leads.

Mr Murat said: "It isn't me. But the description is so vague that it won't put me out of the picture."

"I hope that I will soon be in a position to clear my name."

But Mr McCann said he still "truly believed" his daughter was alive.

"If she was dead I think the search was so extensive they would have found something," he said.

29 May 2007

Experts from Britain are attempting to trace the abductor of Madeleine McCann by following a trail left by mobile telephone signals.

A team of British telecommunications specialists has arrived in the Algarve to attempt to pinpoint the movements of telephones around the resort complex where Madeleine was abducted 26 days ago.

Their arrival came as Madeleine’s parents released the final mobile telephone images of the child before her abduction. They show her excitedly starting the week’s holiday in Portugal.

The mobile telephone tracing technique was used to collect evidence that helped to convict Ian Huntley for the murders of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman in Soham, Cambridgeshire, in 2002.

Trails are created by silent transmissions sent out by every mobile phone even when not in use. Each signal is picked up by masts, which create a timed computer log of the handset’s movements. By measuring the strength of the signal, the location of the handset can often be narrowed to an area as small as a few square yards.

Detectives will use the information to verify statements provided by guests and staff at the Ocean Club complex, where Madeleine was taken from her bed.

29 May 2007

The video clip released last night had been captured on the mobile phone of a friend.

It shows Madeleine clambering up the aircraft steps, clasping her pink Barbie rucksack. In her excitement she slips, grazing her shin.

But Mr McCann said she was so thrilled about going to Portugal she refused to get upset. "She was really brave. She started crying but stopped almost immediately," he said.

"When we got to the top of the steps I saw she had grazed her shin. It looked really sore - the step was just the right height for her leg. It was something that usually would have caused 10 minutes of crying rather than 10 seconds."


It all changed when the British dogs arrived.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline sadie

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #248 on: April 15, 2015, 01:13:59 PM »
3 June 2007

Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa said: "We continue to investigate the possibility that whoever took this child could have done it for money, and hasn't asked for a ransom because they've panicked with the headlines the case has generated.

"Who would dare ask for money for this child when her image is going around the world?"

He added: "A kidnapper could easily have a child hidden, possibly close by."

21 May 2007

"There are strong suspicions we are dealing with a sexual predator. As a rule these individuals abuse their victims, kill them and get rid of the bodies.

"What we want is to find the girl safe and sound, but it is true as time goes by this hope is becoming less likely."

Forensic scientists have found no evidence to suggest Madeleine's room at the Praia de Luz resort was broken into, the source said.

There were also no fingerprints other than those of the family and no sign of a struggle. The source added: "These are preliminary results and further tests may bring new clues.

"It is painful to say this, but we must be realistic the chances of finding her alive are getting less and less.

"All the publicity in the media may have made the kidnapper get rid of his victim and any clues."

Detectives today said they want to quiz a cousin of prime suspect Robert Murat.

Police sources said they were "very eager" to talk to Genaro Acosta Gonzalez, an estate agent working in Spain.

The development came as Maddy's father, consultant cardiologist Gerry McCann, arrived back in Britain.

25 May 2007

Earlier, it emerged British police have taken a more active role on the ground in the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance. Experts have begun working around the holiday apartment in southern Portugal where the she went missing three weeks ago. Police would not say which British force had sent the two specialists, who could be seen taking measurements and walking around with plans of the crime scene in Praia da Luz.

27 May 2007

Madeleine's father, Gerry, said the sighting of the man "with what appeared to be a child in his arms" was "significant" to his daughter's case.

Portuguese police said they released the description of the man seen on the night the four-year-old was taken from the Praia da Luz apartment in the Algarve, Portugal, in order to eliminate false leads.

Mr Murat said: "It isn't me. But the description is so vague that it won't put me out of the picture."

"I hope that I will soon be in a position to clear my name."

But Mr McCann said he still "truly believed" his daughter was alive.

"If she was dead I think the search was so extensive they would have found something," he said.

29 May 2007

Experts from Britain are attempting to trace the abductor of Madeleine McCann by following a trail left by mobile telephone signals.

A team of British telecommunications specialists has arrived in the Algarve to attempt to pinpoint the movements of telephones around the resort complex where Madeleine was abducted 26 days ago.

Their arrival came as Madeleine’s parents released the final mobile telephone images of the child before her abduction. They show her excitedly starting the week’s holiday in Portugal.

The mobile telephone tracing technique was used to collect evidence that helped to convict Ian Huntley for the murders of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman in Soham, Cambridgeshire, in 2002.

Trails are created by silent transmissions sent out by every mobile phone even when not in use. Each signal is picked up by masts, which create a timed computer log of the handset’s movements. By measuring the strength of the signal, the location of the handset can often be narrowed to an area as small as a few square yards.

Detectives will use the information to verify statements provided by guests and staff at the Ocean Club complex, where Madeleine was taken from her bed.

29 May 2007

The video clip released last night had been captured on the mobile phone of a friend.

It shows Madeleine clambering up the aircraft steps, clasping her pink Barbie rucksack. In her excitement she slips, grazing her shin.

But Mr McCann said she was so thrilled about going to Portugal she refused to get upset. "She was really brave. She started crying but stopped almost immediately," he said.

"When we got to the top of the steps I saw she had grazed her shin. It looked really sore - the step was just the right height for her leg. It was something that usually would have caused 10 minutes of crying rather than 10 seconds."


It all changed when the British dogs arrived.

And what did the British dogs tell us? 


Nothing, nowt, nada

... but Amaral did either not understand the nowt that they supposedly told him
.... or he chose to ignore the fact that the dogs told him Zilch. 


He wanted to nail the Mccanns it seems

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #249 on: April 15, 2015, 01:40:55 PM »
And what did the British dogs tell us? 


Nothing, nowt, nada

... but Amaral did either not understand the nowt that they supposedly told him
.... or he chose to ignore the fact that the dogs told him Zilch. 


He wanted to nail the Mccanns it seems

They told us that the deep sleeping child seen matching Madeleine's description by the Smiths was almost certainly her and that man is still at large.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 01:44:51 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #250 on: April 15, 2015, 01:51:24 PM »
Margaret Hall describes a situation when she went out of apartment 5A by the front (patio) doors and saw a man standing by the movement sensitive lights, man watching the apartments

When she shouted ~ “the man came out of the darkness, the lights were activated."

She was disturbed by the encounter because ~ “it was obvious that there was no good reason for him to be hiding in the darkness outside the apartment. “
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARGARET_HALL.htm

Were those lights active on the night of 3rd May?

If not ... why not?

A strange story this one. According to the Mirror (lol) the lady was aged 51, is that quite old for a Mark Warner nanny? She doesn't say she was a nanny, however, she says she was employed 'as a baby-sitter' but this could be due to translation errors from English to Spanish to Portuguese.

It doesn't say when she first contacted the police, but according to the Mirror she first spoke to them in her home town of Bury. They interviewed her but she never heard anything back, so she contacted Metodo 3 who passed it to the PJ in November 2007. Metodo 3 said they located her.

Although she says it was the same apartment I wondered if it was actually one which opens off the hallways, where there are push-button lights which she may have pressed in order to see better
.http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-nannys-new-sketch-329189
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARGARET_HALL.htm

Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Brietta

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #251 on: April 15, 2015, 02:04:25 PM »
A strange story this one. According to the Mirror (lol) the lady was aged 51, is that quite old for a Mark Warner nanny? She doesn't say she was a nanny, however, she says she was employed 'as a baby-sitter' but this could be due to translation errors from English to Spanish to Portuguese.

It doesn't say when she first contacted the police, but according to the Mirror she first spoke to them in her home town of Bury. They interviewed her but she never heard anything back, so she contacted Metodo 3 who passed it to the PJ in November 2007. Metodo 3 said they located her.

Although she says it was the same apartment I wondered if it was actually one which opens off the hallways, where there are push-button lights which she may have pressed in order to see better
.http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-nannys-new-sketch-329189
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARGARET_HALL.htm

She was quite explicit that the motion sensor light was activated by the movement of the man.

She was also quite explicit in stating that she had reported the incident to her bosses on the following day.

She was quite explicit in knowing exactly where she was when she saw the intruder who activated the light.

       £5%4% Fifty one .... Hmmm.

 
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #252 on: April 15, 2015, 02:29:11 PM »
Margaret Hall describes a situation when she went out of apartment 5A by the front (patio) doors and saw a man standing by the movement sensitive lights, man watching the apartments

When she shouted ~ “the man came out of the darkness, the lights were activated."

She was disturbed by the encounter because ~ “it was obvious that there was no good reason for him to be hiding in the darkness outside the apartment. “
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARGARET_HALL.htm

Were those lights active on the night of 3rd May?

If not ... why not?

As a matter of interest, do you believe this witness?

The document is in Spanish, dated to 1 Nov 2007.  She didn't bother telling the Portuguese police.  She didn't bother telling the Leicestershire police, but she felt the need to pass this info to the Spanish 7 months after Madeleine disappeared.

The document seems a bit muddled on dates.  The only way I can make sense of an Aug/Sep 2006 date is by changing it so that she was working for 6 months up to Oct 2006, not from Oct 2006.

She now remembers an event that took place in 5A on a Thursday night but can't remember if it was in August or September.

The parents were out at the tennis night.  It was 00:30, and they were not back.

Worried about rats, Margaret popped her head out the main entrance.  (Why?  Were the rats around there so noisy one could hear them, or did Margaret randomly check for rats?)

By the movement sensitive lights she saw a brown object move.  (Neither Margaret nor the 'rat' had moved enough to switch on the light.)

When she looked closer she saw the rat was a man, who then moved (again) this time setting on the movement sensitive lights.

Then from the words  "No, no" she could deduce that he was Portuguese.

She told her supervisor, who passed it on to John Hall.  The supervisor is not named.  However, Margaret is privy to the information that both were worried about rats.  Why were they worried about rats, given that Margaret had not seen a rat?

John Hill makes no mention of this lurking man in his statement.  Who knows, perhaps SY got him back in to ask him about it (oh and the entire set of lost keys he never mentioned).  Perhaps Margaret's supervisor was Donna Hill, and SY hauled her in for the same reason.

No one in the T9 mentions a movement sensitive light, though if one had been disabled, they might well not have noticed it.

No one who was interviewed on the basis that they had previously occupied 5A mentions such a light.  Again, if it was disabled, perhaps they did not notice it.

Why, if there was a motion sensitive light near 5A, did they not repair it, as opposed to tacking a floodlight on block 5 months or years later?

Margaret's tale is in my red herrings folder.
What's up, old man?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #253 on: April 15, 2015, 02:36:12 PM »
She was quite explicit that the motion sensor light was activated by the movement of the man.

She was also quite explicit in stating that she had reported the incident to her bosses on the following day.

She was quite explicit in knowing exactly where she was when she saw the intruder who activated the light.

       £5%4% Fifty one .... Hmmm.


I thought we'd established on the 'ambient lighting' thread that there was no motion sensitive lighting or any other lighting near G5A?
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #254 on: April 15, 2015, 02:38:48 PM »
As a matter of interest, do you believe this witness?

The document is in Spanish, dated to 1 Nov 2007.  She didn't bother telling the Portuguese police.  She didn't bother telling the Leicestershire police, but she felt the need to pass this info to the Spanish 7 months after Madeleine disappeared.

The document seems a bit muddled on dates.  The only way I can make sense of an Aug/Sep 2006 date is by changing it so that she was working for 6 months up to Oct 2006, not from Oct 2006.

She now remembers an event that took place in 5A on a Thursday night but can't remember if it was in August or September.

The parents were out at the tennis night.  It was 00:30, and they were not back.

Worried about rats, Margaret popped her head out the main entrance.  (Why?  Were the rats around there so noisy one could hear them, or did Margaret randomly check for rats?)

By the movement sensitive lights she saw a brown object move.  (Neither Margaret nor the 'rat' had moved enough to switch on the light.)

When she looked closer she saw the rat was a man, who then moved (again) this time setting on the movement sensitive lights.

Then from the words  "No, no" she could deduce that he was Portuguese.

She told her supervisor, who passed it on to John Hall.  The supervisor is not named.  However, Margaret is privy to the information that both were worried about rats.  Why were they worried about rats, given that Margaret had not seen a rat?

John Hill makes no mention of this lurking man in his statement.  Who knows, perhaps SY got him back in to ask him about it (oh and the entire set of lost keys he never mentioned).  Perhaps Margaret's supervisor was Donna Hill, and SY hauled her in for the same reason.

No one in the T9 mentions a movement sensitive light, though if one had been disabled, they might well not have noticed it.

No one who was interviewed on the basis that they had previously occupied 5A mentions such a light.  Again, if it was disabled, perhaps they did not notice it.

Why, if there was a motion sensitive light near 5A, did they not repair it, as opposed to tacking a floodlight on block 5 months or years later?

Margaret's tale is in my red herrings folder.

That folder must be bulging by now 8)--))